JHoff80 Posted January 13, 2001 Share Posted January 13, 2001 On a semirelated note... TV, do u have any measurements for the max output of the 16-46? I was looking at the website and coudln't find it.. but maybe i wasn't looking hard enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilH Posted January 15, 2001 Share Posted January 15, 2001 As far as the RSW-15's capabilities, ask the exhibitors who were around the Klipsch booth at CES (one in particular was getting kind of upset with the deep shaking of their booth). We can hardly wait to get the new subs to market so you can see that what we're saying is true...we've listened to your concerns the last several months about not having a true high end sub in the same tradition of Klipsch's most loved models. There is only so much anyone can do with a small footprint box so the main goal on this project was to produce a musical, high volume, low distortion subwoofer that can keep up with even the Legend and Heritage line, complimenting them with tight, DEEP bass...bass that rivals and surpasses larger and much costlier subs on the market today. Hey, it's GREAT to finally be able to talk about our new subs...I can't wait to hear the responses of everyone here once you get the chance to hear them! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wireless Posted January 15, 2001 Share Posted January 15, 2001 quote: Originally posted by PhilH: We can hardly wait to get the new subs to market so you can see that what we're saying is true When exactly will one be available for purchase? I was about to purchase an LF-10 in a matter of days but would rather get the latest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TVodhanel Posted January 15, 2001 Share Posted January 15, 2001 >>>thanks again for the info tv! so how would the bigger sv sub sound along w/ an hgs, or most other brand's powered subs? complimentary or conflicting or both?<<< a 16-46 should have about the same clean output as a hgs18. They would match well together I think---holding to typical placement issues of course. Maybe stacking the 16-46 on the top of a hgs18? Keep em' as close together as you can. >>>DMAN You mention that if we could could undo the servo we would have a lot more bass. That may be true but the Vel's servo subs WITH the servo and the anal clamp down STILL outperform (deeper and louder) most all other mass marketed subs out there.<<< The servo HGS units are nearly unparalelled for their ability to produce a lot of clean first octave bass from a relatively small box...I agree. They're expensive though....and (only imo) a subwoofer costing 3k should be able to produce MINIMUM "reference" requirements in a typical HT environment. >>>On a semirelated note... TV, do u have any measurements for the max output of the 16-46? I was looking at the website and coudln't find it.. but maybe i wasn't looking hard enough.<<< I have quasi-anechoic data,but thats not going to directly relate to the type of data you see in Nousaine's reviews. I think a dual 16-46 package(600w amp---$1300ish delivered)...would have about the same clean output as dual HGS18s...but thats just a guess,I havent even heard a HGS18(i ahve played with a fsr18 though!) the new klipsch woofs look to be absolute killers...they'll give the big servos a serious run for the top of TN's data listing! TV Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boa12 Posted January 15, 2001 Share Posted January 15, 2001 great idea! so after I get the new amp, that'll be next - either a 16-46 or rsw-15 on top of the hgs-15. we'll see ------------------ RF-3 (front), RC-3, Cornwall I (rear) Velodyne HGS-15 sub Monsterbass 400 sub cables & Monster Z-12 speak wire Sony de935 a/v receiver Sony DVP-C650D dvdp Sony Trinitron 27" tv Technics dual cassette deck Technics direct drive turntable Scientific Atlanta Explorer 2000 digital cable box rock on! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilH Posted January 16, 2001 Share Posted January 16, 2001 All the new stuff is scheduled to ship in May... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boa12 Posted January 17, 2001 Share Posted January 17, 2001 looks like the new rsw subs are using an equal sized passive radiator. why don't more of today's subs use these? i haven't noticed (w/ my limited experience) any other subs using them. any cons to them? do they possibly increase distortion levels for the sake of increased impact or extension? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wireless Posted January 17, 2001 Share Posted January 17, 2001 quote: Originally posted by boa12: looks like the new rsw subs are using an equal sized passive radiator. why don't more of today's subs use these? i haven't noticed (w/ my limited experience) any other subs using them. any cons to them? I was wondering the same thing. Also, why aren't passive woofers used on regular speakers anymore? They are on my Fortes and they seemed to work pretty good. However, in recent times passive woofers have been done away with on the KLFs in favor of ports. Is it just less expensive to build them with ports? -David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Garrison Posted January 17, 2001 Share Posted January 17, 2001 boa12 et al, No, the tracking downconverter is not a limiter. It is Bob "What, me hype stuff?" Carver's term for part of his amplifier design. Fascinating reading is available at: http://www.audio-ideas.com/interview/carver.html Of course, knowing how Bob describes things, there's no guarentee you'll understand any more about what a "tracking downconverter" is after you read the story... Ray "love my REL" Garrison ------------------ Music is art Audio is engineering Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boa12 Posted January 17, 2001 Share Posted January 17, 2001 hey thanks again ray - I can now sleep well may have to look at a REL too for the hgs top for HT slam. u have any thoughts on the passive radiator? (as in above that is) ------------------ RF-3 (front), RC-3, Cornwall I (rear) Velodyne HGS-15 sub Monsterbass 400 sub cables & Monster Z-12 speak wire Sony de935 a/v receiver Sony DVP-C650D dvdp Sony Trinitron 27" tv Technics dual cassette deck Technics direct drive turntable Scientific Atlanta Explorer 2000 digital cable box rock on! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spider124 Posted January 17, 2001 Share Posted January 17, 2001 Passive radiators are more expensive than ports and have worse transient response than either ports or sealed boxes. Charlie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boa12 Posted January 17, 2001 Share Posted January 17, 2001 spider, transient response - heard that somewhere but could u explain further? couldn't find it in the glossary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dman155 Posted January 17, 2001 Share Posted January 17, 2001 Transient response = speed. This is because to tune a passive radiator system, a wieght has to be built into the radiator. The heavier the weight, the lower the tuning point, but the slower the woofer becomes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stone Posted January 17, 2001 Share Posted January 17, 2001 Don't passive radiators operate "out of phase" where as one driver moves in as the other moves out. There for canceling out even order harmonic distortion, kind of a push pull system just one driver is passive? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spider124 Posted January 17, 2001 Share Posted January 17, 2001 Stone, not really. In fact, above the tuning point, the passive radiator really isn't moving at all, and near the tuning point of the box, the driver isn't moving hardly at all. In the middle there, they move in all sorts of weird combinations & things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spider124 Posted January 17, 2001 Share Posted January 17, 2001 tv, up above you mentioned a home-made sub. Sonotube I assume? What sort of specs? Charlie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boa12 Posted January 17, 2001 Share Posted January 17, 2001 thanks for the radiator info guys. so I guess the big ? is why klipsch decided to bring em back for their new rsw sub line(?) sounds like they're going for the big impact for HT, but maybe not as fast & musical (?) may not be good to put one w/ a big servo sub without an a/b switch for both HT & music listening. can't wait for the rsw reviews. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RossVTaylor Posted January 17, 2001 Share Posted January 17, 2001 TV and others, I'm going to be building a dedicated HT room and I have the opportunity to create a large enclosure for a built-in subwoofer in the raised platform. Being pretty handy with tools and woodworking, I think I could build a quality sub. Is there a practical design for a sub that would perform better than a reasonably-priced commercial product in this setup? The new RSW-15 sounds like it has great potential at a reasonable ($1,000??) price. Can I better this? (I'd posted this question a few weeks ago in the architectural and this forum, but didn't get any input) Ross Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stone Posted January 17, 2001 Share Posted January 17, 2001 Yea I understand the tuning point, but I still though the advantage was the "push pull" effect. Maybe someone else could elaborate on the advantages. I sure see them used alot in diy configs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spider124 Posted January 17, 2001 Share Posted January 17, 2001 Stone, you get the output of a ported sub, with less distortion, tuned even lower, in a smaller box. That's the advantage. boa, since the tuning point of the PR's in a sub like this is so low, and they are so large and heavy, that above like 25hz or so, they are barely moving (if at all), the PR's don't start to kick in until lower frequencies where group delay is somewhat less important. Above the point where the PR's really start to move, the sub is probably (not sure) operating at a point somewhere between where a sealed & infinite baffle subwoofer would. A large, well-designed PR alignment should blow the doors off a servo in just about every category. (Tightness, Output, Depth) I've heard a design using Lambda Acoustics drivers (the GOT12 alignment for anyone that cares), that was just awesome. There was a version of it that gave clearn response well up to 500hz(!) to blend in with his new horn speakers. Too bad Lambda doesn't sell drivers anymore Look at how the Stryke 15" performed on TN's tests (look for a thread started by TV lower down the list.) That was a large (22" cube) PR alignment. I can't wait to get my hands on one of those. Ross, it was my understanding the RSW-15 will have an MSRP of $3,000. Charlie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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