fire pinch Posted April 18, 2003 Share Posted April 18, 2003 I know that someone posted a tread about a Klipsch vs Paradigm comparison but I suggest two particular models. I have the Paradigm Monitor 9 v.3 at home with a 225W/channel receiver (Anthem). I listened to the RF-3 towers last year against my Monitor 9 v.2 (please notice here that the v.2 and v.3 is not the same for Paradigm). I found that the Klipsch RF-3 sounded AWESOME!!! They truely show their presence with their punch and I found the Monitor 9 v.2 a bit shy compared the the RF-3s. However... as you know now, I owned the Monitor 9 v.2 before and today, I have the v.3 of them. I find that the v.3 offer better midrange clarity and better MID-BASS PUNCH!!! I was very surprised when I listened first to them, I thought that they were entirely a new style of speaker. And now, since I have more KICK from them, this is why I ask you the question, for those who have both of them or who have listened to both of them (and notice, not the v.2 of the Monitor9). So how, in your opinion, do they compare? Please, be complete when you explain!!! Oh and by the way, I think that Im gonna listen to them again this summer (the RF-3s)! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fire pinch Posted April 18, 2003 Author Share Posted April 18, 2003 ^BUMP^!!!! Cmon! With all those views no people have both of them or heard both of them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fire pinch Posted April 20, 2003 Author Share Posted April 20, 2003 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prodj101 Posted April 20, 2003 Share Posted April 20, 2003 it really comes down to opinion. klipsch have a very distinct sound that very few speakers on the market will have, just because klipsch is one of the only horn spekaers on the market designed for home use. The way it seems to go is either you love the klipsch sound or you absoultely hate it and are in the "audiophile" camp that things they are colored sounding garbage. so, what it comes down to is do YOU like the klipsch over the paradigms? if you do, get them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leok Posted April 20, 2003 Share Posted April 20, 2003 If you use a high power amp with Klipsch speakers then you're not hearing them at their best, because, at the low powers used by the Klipsch speaker, the amp is probably delivering substantial distortion. All I'm saying there is that the RF-3 would probably do better driven by a 10 or 20 Watt tube amp. However, as mentioned in an earlier post, you still may prefer an alternate "sound." Is it worth optimizing the amp to get the most out of Klipsch speakers? Many people on this site think so, because they (including me) find a well driven Klipsch speaker is worth the effort. So, we're a pretty biased crowd. leok Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted April 20, 2003 Share Posted April 20, 2003 "So, we're a pretty biased crowd." Hee hee. The Paradigms are excellent sounding speakers, and I almost bought a set of big Studio models before I discovered the diminutive RB-5. Those Canadians are well grounded up there -- pretty much great speakers all the way around. In the end, I went with a set of RB-5's and a Boston PV1000 powered sub because I really noticed the high level of articulation with the RB-5's. I feel the Reference line driver/horns do a much better job of unravelling the layers in the music then straight up tweeters mounted on a baffle. I think the Paradigms will be much more forgiving of less than wonderful sources. The RF-3's otoh, might ask you for an upgrade or two. The thing to remember is the sense of immediacy, openess, and the lack of compression during loud complex muscial passages one gets with horns -- once you experience that in your own listening room, there's simply no going back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fire pinch Posted April 20, 2003 Author Share Posted April 20, 2003 mm yeah, many people tell me that normally, well designed horn speakers are the best for listening to music. But why some say that Klipsch Reference speakers give a colored sound? I just dont get it... do they mean that they doesnt sound flat (some dips in the frequency curve)? Lets say from 40 Hz and up for the RF3 towers, to they have big drops or highs in frequencies? Are they uneven somewhere? And I know you will jump on me if I think that way... I see the klipsch Reference series as beeing "directional" because of their horn, not a 180 degrees sound dispertion. It seems that when you place them correctly in a room, you can get a good soundstage. Yeah, that soundstage, Im affraid that If I buy the RF3s, I will not have a good soundstage in my room. You know, the dealer doesnt accept that I bring them to my home so I cant know if the soundstage will be good here. I just can listen to them at the store and from there, I can just judge the overall sound quality, the timbral balance, midrange, bass etc... Beeing a Klipsch Promedia owner in the past years, that was just TOO tempting to buy these RF3's because when I listened to them, they pleased me a lot. I thought twice before bringing them with me when I heard that the sound was a little bit harsh when they were pushed at a very high volume. With a better amp, could this harsh sound dissapear? I think about bringing my Anthem power amp with me and to give them a try again. But you know, I will have to think twice again because it must worth it compared to my Monitor9s... I cant beleive that these puppies cannot kick HARDER than my Monitor9s v.3 if they sensitivity is rated at 98 dB/w/m! With 225W of current per channel, I hope that they will blow me away Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted April 20, 2003 Share Posted April 20, 2003 How big is your room What do you listen to What is your equipment list Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael hurd Posted April 20, 2003 Share Posted April 20, 2003 There certainly isn't anything wrong with paradigm speakers, they simply wouldn't be my first choice. When or where did you hear that the sound was a little harsh when pushed to high volumes ? From the salesman at the store ? Or is this what you perceive ? Directional sound isn't bad, it reduces the tendencies for early reflections off walls and other adjacent surfaces which can cause phase shifts and generaly smear the sound from what the transducers are reproducing. Again, there are many camps on this and dr. armand bose is on the impression that his direct / reflecting bose speakers are more natural sounding in ambiance. I realize that when you listen to a band or a symphony at a properly designed hall / venue, you are hearing a combination of direct and reflected sound BUT the amplitude is much lower due to the hall's acoustical treatment's. Absorption and diffraction are at work to reduce the energy that is reradiated to the listener. This requires different techniques with the different frequency ranges. Also the sound from a symphony is both omnidirecional and directional in nature. Does your home employ any acoustical treatments, such as polysheres, bass traps and acoustical foams ? If you are like me, I would tend to think not. Also, as the frequency goes up, a speakers output tends to narrow in dispersion, and no speaker made can reproduce 20 hz with a 180 degree radiation pattern without having output drop off rapidly past 45 degrees off axis, meaning thatin the treble, a 90 degree radiation pattern is the about the best that you are going to get. Any speaker will sound better in a corner, and preferrably on the long wall of the room. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael hurd Posted April 20, 2003 Share Posted April 20, 2003 Bottom line : Both speakers are great reproducers, but you are the one that will be listening to them for a long time, so choose with that in mind. Also, I think trying your anthem power amp with them would be a good idea. I think that if you are utilizing that large of an amplifier with your paradigm's, then you will have no trouble eclipsing your present volume levels with the Klipsch RF3's. Also, you will suffer from less compression as you are not heating the voice coils in the speakers as much fo the same volume levels as before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fire pinch Posted April 21, 2003 Author Share Posted April 21, 2003 Oh thank you for your nice complete and accurate explanations michael! As for what type of music I listen to, I listen very often to hard house, techno and boom boom songs. But I like also rock, classical, pop, etc... My equipment is quite very simple, I own Paradigm Monitor 9 v.3 towers, Monitor 3 v.3 for the back, CC-370 for the center, Hsu VTF-3 subwoofer, Yamaha RXV-630 receiver and a Anthem MCA-20 stereo power amp. Im in a 1470 cubic ft room, my bedroom. Well, at the store when I listened to the RF3's, I really heard that they began to sound harsh and grainy in the highs at high volume. This is the salesman who pumped up the volume to show me how loud they can be. But he didnt use the best equipment I think... that was a HOME THEATRE (not stereo) Marantz receiver which cost like mmm $1000US. Im curious to find out if they will sound harsh again with my Anthem MCA-20 amp, for sure, I will go again to the store this summer to know if that harsh sound will dissapear with my power amp, Im just too much temped. They surprised me soooo much with a boom boom song (dunno if its trance, techno or hard house), they were soooo powerfull, they kicked so hard in my chest. That time, I brang my Paradigm PS-1000 subwoofer and the RF-3s almost outgunned completly my PS-1000 subwoofer. I didnt even know if my sub was playing!! Considering that this Marantz didnt give 200W of true power per channel to these RF-3s, I bet that they will blow me away until I pass thru the windows and that I fly over the highway!!! LOL! It would be hard to beleive with only two 8 inchers per tower but... mmm well, you, all RF-3 users, know how hard they can kick! By the way, will it be too much for the RF-3s if I give to them 225W of power per tower? In the klipsch website they are rated to accept a maximum of 150W continuous, pretty much like my Monitor9s... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug C Posted April 21, 2003 Share Posted April 21, 2003 Someone mentioned a concern about the horn of the Reference speakers being directional? I had RF-5's and now RF-7's and they produce a wide and deep sound stage. They completely disappear. On most well recorded material it is not obvious that music is coming directly from the speaker itself. The RF-7's replaced my Paradigm Studio 100's. The 100's are a great speaker but now sound flat to me after having the Klipsch. In fact I'm trading in my 100's for the RC7 and RS7 speakers to go with my RF-7's. I'm driving the RF-7's with a 2-watt Decware tube amp and love it. I listen to lots of loud Rock and this combo really puts out. I agree with the earlier comment about power. In reality I think 10-watts will send you running for cover. The Reference series really sounds great with tube amps provided you have a decent source. Doug C Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fire pinch Posted April 22, 2003 Author Share Posted April 22, 2003 I read more about my Anthem MCA-20 amp at the Sonic Frontier website and I think to have seen the word tube amp somewhere. Is the MCA-20 amp supposed to have a mixture of like "electronic chips" + "tube amp"? I beleive that Im biased on this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strabo Posted April 22, 2003 Share Posted April 22, 2003 The MCA series is the big brother of the PVA series that I'm using. They are both a 100% solid state. No tubes. I think that SF does have a hybrid integrated that uses both Tubes and SS but not in the MCA and PVA's. Your other question about speaker coloration: Speaker coloration can be described as having fequency swings over the entire sound bandwith. I consider it to be the "voice" of the speaker. Yes, my forte's are colored, and I like it that way. They have about a 4db lift as the frequency increases from 500hz to 5k hz or so. I have measured this with my spl meter and a sound check disk. I like my software and playback system to be flat and allow the speakers to color the music. That's one of the reasons I chose them. In the end, that may be the reason I get rid of them someday too. To me flat speakers sound to sterile. I like that the klipsch are engaging even at low listening levels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fire pinch Posted April 22, 2003 Author Share Posted April 22, 2003 Do you think all that the Anthem MCA-20 is considered like a high-end amp? Do u think that the RF-3's and this amp will match well togheter? You know... this is because I would like to have them so much (the RF-3's) but at the same time, if it would require that I sell my amp and that I buy a new one (lets say a true tube amp), I will not have enough money for this instance. Well, I would have enough money, but I have a certain budget I know that I will know all that when I'll go to the store with my Anthem amp. But Im sure that some of you here have this amp and know how it would match with a set of RF-3 towers Oh and another thing... lets say that I have listened to the RF-3s with a Marantz home theatre receiver, do you think that the sound will be VERY different when I will bring my Anthem MCA-20 there? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strabo Posted April 23, 2003 Share Posted April 23, 2003 They should work fine together. The RF3's are 98db/1w so you will rarely push the amp over a watt. It might be considered overkill, but it should work fine. The MCA is 225w/c. My concern would be volumn control but it has a resonable input sensitivity of 1.5v to reach full output, so you should be ok there. On the bright side, you probably don't have to ever worry about sending the amp into clipping unless you try generating over 120db and at that point you would start overdriving the speaker (which is a unique sound and not recommended). I think you would be suprised at how many people here use high wattage amps to drive their klipsch. Look around. I can't remember where it was, but there is a recent thread here where people were listing how much power they are using. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fire pinch Posted April 23, 2003 Author Share Posted April 23, 2003 Yeah, that is what I was thinking too... that I need just 1 or 2 watts to have plenty of sound from these speakers. But the things is that I'm worried about the quality of these watts that my amp give! Better amps give better and purer signal, Im just not enough informed about how Anthem compare to other high end amps. It seems that it take an extremly good amp to make the RF-3's shine and to really have good sound quality wihthout any harshness. Notice that I said it seem but I would prefer to say it seems to ME. By the way, I like my sound very loud when I listen to techno songs so I wouldnt refuse a 120 dB from the RF-3s (mmm it would be very surprising if I could acheive this lol). But in the other side, I like my sound less loud (lets say 85 dB) when I listen to rock and other style of musics. For now, my top SPL is 118 dB (peak) with my present system and this SPL is due mostly because of the Hsu VTF-3 subwoofer. I have a tinny 1470 cubic ft room so this help hehe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minn_male42 Posted April 23, 2003 Share Posted April 23, 2003 i know alot of klipsch owners use low power tube amplifiers to power their speakers but.... i have a pair of KLF-30's for my main speakers and i power them with a Carver TFM-25 amplifier that is rated at 225 watts per channel....there are analog meters on the amp and i have hit peaks of 110 watts listening to some music..... remember...the KLF-30's are rated at 102 db @ 1 watt @ 1 meter efficiency.... my room is not that huge......about 20 ft wide by 18 ft deep and an 8 ft ceiling.... alot of CLEAN QUALITY POWER gives you headroom if you want to listen to your music at that higher level.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted April 23, 2003 Share Posted April 23, 2003 "...there are analog meters on the amp and i have hit peaks of 110 watts listening to some music...remember...the KLF-30's are rated at 102 db @ 1 watt @ 1 meter efficiency....a lot of CLEAN QUALITY POWER gives you headroom if you want to listen to your music at that higher level..." This is why I recommend no less than 20 watts for moderate listening levels, and much more if you want to hit realistic levels WITH ALL THE DYNAMICS INTACT. I ran a 200 wpc Luxman on my RB-5's, and it was absolutely killer. Of course, I can now reach the same high SPL's - cleanly, with 60 tube watts on my RF-7's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fire pinch Posted April 24, 2003 Author Share Posted April 24, 2003 WOoaaaa cool! You give me the impression that these Klipsch RF-3's can be like 20 times louder than my Paradigm Monitor 9 v.3. Ahhh this is hard to beleive for me but I think that this is honnest to say that because of their high sensitivity, the Klipschers can be LOUD. Ahhh I cant wait the summer time, I would like so much to go listen to them right now but if I do, and If I like them at that time, I will want to BUY THEM... and this is not what I want to do loll! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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