Bruinsrme Posted April 27, 2003 Share Posted April 27, 2003 I have decided to keep the klipsch for now and make some changes to the HT. The receiver and dvd player are not going anywhere but I am making some structual changes and someone mentioned cables. so any/all recommendations to help control the brightness are welcomed.(as long as they do not include dumping the receiver or dvd palyer.) thank you for your support. Scott Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill H. Posted April 27, 2003 Share Posted April 27, 2003 Scott, Don't know if I can help, but when I frist bought from my local B&M Dealer-I bought two 15' Kimbler Kable (for an outragous price). About 1.30 per ft. I later bought Monster cable from Radio Shack for .30 cents per ft. I have tried both , and I can't hear much difference- IMHO. I am Not trying to start a flame here....just my results. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fish Posted April 27, 2003 Share Posted April 27, 2003 Hey Scott,just wanted to ask if you have your 7's in the corners? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnA Posted April 27, 2003 Share Posted April 27, 2003 Well, other then the receiver, ....... Most systems that seem bright are in highly reflective rooms. I'd work on the hard surfaces in the room myself. A neat, highly effective absorber is a 1x2 wooden frame filled with "duct board" and covered with a coordinated fabric. The foil backing goes against the wall. You can make any size and shape you want. They should be firmly fixed to the wall so they don't rattle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruinsrme Posted April 27, 2003 Author Share Posted April 27, 2003 Please share your experiences with different speaker wire and leave the flaming or debates for another time. As stated there will be room modifications. current there is about 7 fee behind the speakers but I plan on closing that to about 18 inches with a new wall and possibly a sliding door. In the lousy diagram the right speaker is going to be moved back and the black area ( D,E, F 10 and 11) will be closed off and become part of the HT opening up and addition 30x32 area for the right speaker. also I am considering the sliding door along the D line. I feel a geat deal of the center channel and fronts are being lost in the open area behind the tv. also I am strongly considering using the front pre outs of the 49txi to a tube amp. Once I get to a real computer I will post an updated room layout scott Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill H. Posted April 27, 2003 Share Posted April 27, 2003 Have you tried just reversing the room arrangement? Seems to me if you just reverse the arrangement and move the layout to the left (as it is presented), you would have a squarer (sp) arrangement. The only down side I see is the fireplace, which my be a bad reflective surface..... this would also help you, in that you would not have a long run for wire to you sub...all major componets on one wall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruinsrme Posted April 27, 2003 Author Share Posted April 27, 2003 I have tried reversing the room but I stopped when I got to the fireplace, it was just too much to move.... I have considered such a rearrangement but there are other issues. Between the tv and the right speaker there is a beam support that can not be moved due to code and the walls it is under. along the F line is a beam that hangs down 8 inches At f 9.5 and 10 is a support beam looking at the diagram a stairway runs along the letter designations of the picture. Stairs have a 26 inch landing and there is another support beam at F1 other configurations have been considered but the problem is surround locations. Pipes, stairs, beams and fireplace limit the configuration severely. we went as far as making card board mock up of the furniture, audio stand and speaker and found that what is on paper doesn't necessarily work in reality. the current config was the only one that was actually functional. Scott . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill H. Posted April 27, 2003 Share Posted April 27, 2003 Scott, Not trying to break your back moving furniture, sure you wife helps with that! IF I am understanding you, you have 7' of space Behind the TV? May I suggest you shift everything (as you looking at the picture) to the left, and make everything square. Put the recliners in line with the sofa, move everything forward i.e. put all you speaker/tv back into the (alcove?) and move the sofa recliner forward in proportion...... (had a fireplace in my old house and had the same problems with placements.) Short of that, do you have an audio shop that might come out and do a recommendation for you on placements? You really are in a pickle aren't you?...................good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lynnm Posted April 27, 2003 Share Posted April 27, 2003 Scott Re: Brightness Based on your diagram the problem is almost certainly a question of placement and possibly also a problem of undesirable room acoustics. The items discussed in point 1 below are by far the most important. Even if you are unable or unwilling to make other changes the placement of the RF7's needs to be corrected. 1.) Your RF7's are much too far away from the rear wall. That kills bass and thereby emphasises mids and treble. They should be about 2.5 - 3.0 feet from the back wall and 2.5- 3.0 feet from the nearest sidewall. They should also not be in a direct line with any furniture etc. stationed between them. Get them at least a few inches into the area between the front of the TV and the listening position if possible. That said if a compromise must occur the placement of the speakers with respect to the walls is more critical than the placement with respect to the TV. 2.) Your RS7's appear from the diagram to be very close to the seating. They should be above ear level, (as you have indicated you have done) but should not be right above the seats as this once again emphasises treble and mids and de-emphasises bass. 3.) Sonic reflections can as mentioned elsewhere play merry hell with the sound. My room is an awkward size. I built some acoustic panels as described at Jon Risch's site and absolutely transformed the sound of my system. The total cost for four 2'6" X 4' panels plus a pair pyramidal absorbers for a troublesome wall/ceiling junction was C$150.00 . I have a little more work to do in that area but it has already made a huge improvement to the sound. Jon also has plans for bass traps and room lenses on his site. The panels strike me as the most practical of the devices he describes: http://www.geocities.com/jonrisch/a1.htm Let us know how you make out. Don't give up - the results really are worth the aggravation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruinsrme Posted April 27, 2003 Author Share Posted April 27, 2003 Bill, Correction; from the back of the tv there is 43 inches and in that space lives my computer desk. I may have misunderstood you, Yes moving everything to the left would work and does work well with the exception of the stairs are ont he left side of the room. We rotated the setup and moved the TV on the left wall, along the stairs but the TV stuck out nearly 3 feet from wall and blocking the access door to the breaker box room. The right surround sound seemed to bounce around and sound echoy (sp) while the left surround sounded alive. So the current set up was the most workable. I have thought about partioning the room off but have to wait until the other part of the cellar is completed that is why I was going to put in a sliding door. Now the other side is 13x 13x 8. The only thing is the oil tak is in the middle of one wall. Scott Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill H. Posted April 27, 2003 Share Posted April 27, 2003 Scott, First off, try Lynm's recommendations first! It's funny what you first read in a post; all this time I thought you were talking about a Living Room. When I saw the word Oil Tank! I thought Holy Weapons of Mass Destruction! I re- read your post and realized you were talking about your Basement! Whew! Now I understand the brightness issue! Block Wallls -hard surfaces..............what a task you have. Let us know what happens after you try Lynms ideas..............Good Luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruinsrme Posted April 27, 2003 Author Share Posted April 27, 2003 Oh no the living room is worse, with horse hair plaster walls I just as well has glass walls. that stuff is unbelievably hard and reflective. The basement with the suspended ceiling, carpet and fluffy furniture will be easier to deal with. I think what I will do is test out the speakers along the wall with stairs and i may have to buy the plasma display sooner than I wanted too. Bass is certainly not an issue I worry about, the SVs's take care of that. thanks for the advice. Scott Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruinsrme Posted April 27, 2003 Author Share Posted April 27, 2003 ---------------- . 1.) Your RF7's are much too far away from the rear wall. That kills bass and thereby emphasises mids and treble. They should be about 2.5 - 3.0 feet from the back wall and 2.5- 3.0 feet from the nearest sidewall. They should also not be in a direct line with any furniture etc. stationed between them. Get them at least a few inches into the area between the front of the TV and the listening position if possible. That said if a compromise must occur the placement of the speakers with respect to the walls is more critical than the placement with respect to the TV. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- The the wall modification the Right RF7 will have 26 inches behind it but only 6 inch to the right.The wall is planned to be extended all the way across with room as to block off the listening area from the computer area.. also, looking back at my set up notes it was found that the front speakers caused far more reflection off the fireplace than the surrounds did, (that was with the initial Ref 3 system. ) the most technical term to describe the room - sucks!!!!! I really want to tame the highs, bass I am not concerned with to say the least. So my goal is to achieve the best result from an non-idealistic room. I am also starting to consider RB75.... Scott Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m00n Posted April 27, 2003 Share Posted April 27, 2003 ---------------- On 4/27/2003 7:45:59 AM John Albright wrote: Well, other then the receiver, ....... Most systems that seem bright are in highly reflective rooms. I'd work on the hard surfaces in the room myself. A neat, highly effective absorber is a 1x2 wooden frame filled with "duct board" and covered with a coordinated fabric. The foil backing goes against the wall. You can make any size and shape you want. They should be firmly fixed to the wall so they don't rattle. ---------------- John! Thank you for that information, you just answered a question I posted up in Scotts post "Virgin needs help" up on 2 channel land. I had a somewhat educated guess that a lot of reflections would cause the overall sound to seem brighter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m00n Posted April 27, 2003 Share Posted April 27, 2003 ---------------- On 4/27/2003 9:08:33 AM bruinsrme wrote: I have tried reversing the room but I stopped when I got to the fireplace, it was just too much to move.... ---------------- WHAT? Your just lazy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JewishAMerPrince Posted April 27, 2003 Share Posted April 27, 2003 Here is a suggestion for making music sound much smoother (less bright) when using your DVD player for playing a CD. I ran an additional set of analog stereo cables from the anolog output of my DVD player to the analog CD inputs of my receiver (now pre/pro). This seemed to tame the overly bright and strident highs quite a bit, at least while listening to music. I've read everyone else's comments on changing the room for acoustic refinement and I agree that something needs to be done there. Jerry Rappaport Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kjohnsonhp Posted April 27, 2003 Share Posted April 27, 2003 I'm working on the same project...trying to tame the brightness. I've heard your setup several times in the store's demo theater and it always sounded bright to me. My Cornwall system has always been bright too with SS and digital audio. The best I've been able to do is run a turntable with tube pre and tube amp. All tubes and vinyl is a lot different. Digital audio has been a struggle but with all tubes it was much better. Movies are bright but have never been a problem. 2-channel CD w/AVR is the brightest and I don't like it...not really harsh...just bright. Moving the speakers into the corners does help the bass and draws less attention to the highs but tweeters are still bright. Turning down the treble has helped. I would agree that speakers away from the walls are way too bright...I've tried it several times. I'm going to connect my tube amp back to the AVR and do some more comparisions. I'm also going to try my PC again as the source. I've also been experimenting with wall treatments. I like the imaging...dynamics...detail...just too much emphasis on the highs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruinsrme Posted April 27, 2003 Author Share Posted April 27, 2003 m00n, you are too much.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arthurs Posted April 27, 2003 Share Posted April 27, 2003 Scott - from a cable perspective, after auditioning many kinds and price ranges, I found Cobalt Cables. You can reach them at cobaltcable.com Very reasonably priced handmade cables that will help with the brightness, it did with mine, and they're beautifully wrapped to boot! Give them a shot, you will notice a difference, I definitely did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruinsrme Posted April 27, 2003 Author Share Posted April 27, 2003 Arthurs, Thank you for replying. I knew someone mentioned cables. i will definitely add that to the consideration list. thank you again, Scott Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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