Jef Posted May 11, 2003 Share Posted May 11, 2003 Hello, the RF3II and RC3II are supposed to be timbre matched, but my center speaker sounds a lot duller - both with the noise testtone and when switching between the center and phantom mode. Actualy my system sounds a lot better in phantom mode than with the center . My RF's are 7 months old and the center is a month old, but I don't have the impression that the center sound is changing anymore. Are there other people who experienced the same problem and was it possible to fix it ? Jef Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geo1 Posted May 11, 2003 Share Posted May 11, 2003 Jeff: I just bought a pair of RF-3II's and RC-3II and they seem to me to be very well matched. Let me ask a few questions. How far off axis do you sit from the center channel. Is it high up on top of a rear projection TV? Since high frequency sounds are highly directional, if the RF's are aimed directly at the seating position, but the RC is not, the speakers can sound different. If all the speakers are aimed at the seating position and they still sound different, maybe something is wrong with the RC. It definitely shouldn't sound dull. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted May 11, 2003 Share Posted May 11, 2003 I was thinking the same thing -- an issue with placement. Do put your ear to that thing and make sure the horn is working. It ure shouldn't sound worse with it on than off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jef Posted May 12, 2003 Author Share Posted May 12, 2003 Thanks for the replies. I sit in the middle - dead center and all speakers pointed towards the seating position. Both motors and the horn function. The speaker is located below the television with care to decouple the speaker cabinet from the shelf it sits on. Regarding the 'dull' sound, a 'boxy' sound would be a better description. I will put the Center in the same location as one of the main speakers to see what difference this makes. I also notice that I have to really increase the center channel volume- more than I would expect from a 1 dB sensitivity difference between the RF and the RC. Is it possible that the Klipsch speakers reach their stated sensitivity after playing them really loud for a period of time ? Jef Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrPyro Posted May 12, 2003 Share Posted May 12, 2003 Jef- I have obvserved the same timber change with my RF3/RC3. However, my RC3 is in a realitivly enclosed space. The timber difference is very noticible when calibrating with Avia. I'll take the speaker out of the entertainment center to see if that "fixes" the issue. -Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geo1 Posted May 12, 2003 Share Posted May 12, 2003 Jef: I sounds like they are positioned OK. You know, I can't state this from personal knowledge because I haven't had a chance to really sit down and listen to mine critically, but I read that the Klipsch Reference speakers sound much better after being broken in. It could be that the RF's are broken in and the RC is not. Just a thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jef Posted May 12, 2003 Author Share Posted May 12, 2003 Did the positioning test, put the RC on top of an RF and compared him with the other channel (not the ideal setup but nevertheless). As the frequency range of both speakers is different comparisons are not that easy but the timbre of the RC was much closer to the RF now. As Geo mentioned I also think that the Center is not completely broken in yet - it would be nice if someone could confirm whether the sensitivity changes after the speaker is played for a longer time or with louder music. I think it is perfectly possibly that by exercising the cones to larger amplitudes the stiffness of the supporting material diminishes, this might even be frequency dependent to a certain degree. Dave, my speaker is positioned as you can see in the Klipsch folder of the RF7 only not on a glass shelf but a wooden one. I thought this would be acceptable as it is not really a box - the sides are open but the fact that you have 2 parallel wooden shelfs seems to be enough to add its own 'wooden timbre'. I forwarded the speaker about an inch which improved the situation but it is not the same as 'freestanding' yet. I guess I could change the setup and put the speaker above the TV unless I could improve the present situation further, any suggestions ? Furthermore I noticed that the receiver itself has it's impact. Creating a phantom with 2 speakers has a different soundstage than listening to the center alone. I also have the impression that the receiver sounds less dynamic when put into surround mode compared to the 2 channel mode. But this will have to wait a few days untill I have him replaced. Jef Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vladi Posted May 12, 2003 Share Posted May 12, 2003 I also have the RF-3 and the RC-3. My RC-3 is set to +4dB so that the channels measure the same SPL during AVIA test. So what you are seeing is normal. Regarding the timber match, my sound pretty close. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom67 Posted May 12, 2003 Share Posted May 12, 2003 ---------------- On 5/11/2003 6:18:14 PM Jef wrote: Hello, the RF3II and RC3II are supposed to be timbre matched, but my center speaker sounds a lot duller - both with the noise testtone and when switching between the center and phantom mode. Actualy my system sounds a lot better in phantom mode than with the center . My RF's are 7 months old and the center is a month old, but I don't have the impression that the center sound is changing anymore. Are there other people who experienced the same problem and was it possible to fix it ? Jef ---------------- There is a lot more driver area with the Rf3s than the single RC3. Make sure you set the speakers to "small" if you are using a sub. If not, much of the "noise" you are hearing is bass from the R & L RF3s and they will tend to drown out the center on the "large" setting.What makes me suspect this as the problem is your comment that the system sounds better on the phantom mode where the center is not involved.If you are not using a sub, all speakers should be set to large. In that instance, increasing the center volume and decreasing the L & R is all you can do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jef Posted May 12, 2003 Author Share Posted May 12, 2003 Tom, that is a very interesting idea and I will try this out as soon as I have my new receiver as I can't set the main speakers 'small' with the present one. In any casy it will asure that both the RF's and RC start at the same frequency which I can imagine might improve the coherence between them. As far as the driver surface goes I would think that the speaker with largest surface might sound deeper but I have the reverse: the Center sounds 'darker' - 'boxed' - 'duller' and the large RF's sound clear and natural. Still think it is the effect of the wooden shelfs that colours the sound and changes the timbre. Thanks for the suggestion. - Vladi, if you measure each speaker seperatly and you have to increase the center with 4 dB for equal soundpressure this would suggest that the center sensitivity is 4 dB below the mains (98-4=94 instead of the 97 as stated). Unless the receiver is calibrated differenty for the single center which I doubt but not sure as I read some confusing stories around this. In any case as one can adjust the speakers individualy it is not that important, only on observation on the sensitivity. Jef Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrPyro Posted May 12, 2003 Share Posted May 12, 2003 Jef- I did some messing around with my setup. Since you beat me to the punch, I was going to suggest that you establish a "baseline" timbre by placing the RC3 on top of the RF3, but since you have done that on to the next observation. I think several things are affecting the timbre. First, room accoustic's have significant impact on the timbre as you have seen. Second, the crossovers are tuned slightly different between the RCs (1950 Hz) & RFs (1975 Hz). Finally, the sealed enclosure and 6" drivers on the RC3 versus the ported enclosure with 8" drivers on the RF3s have significant impact on the base extension of the RC3. When I listen to the RC3, I notice that the timber is higher and less balanced then the RF3s. However, part of this might be due to my crossover being set @ 50 Hz (10 Hz below the bandwidth of the RC3). However, even when I had my Receiver which had a fix crossover @ 80Hz, I noticed the timbre differences. All that blabing done, I have to admit that I have never once noticed the timbre missmatch while watching a DVD. As for the reciever affecting the sound, uhh YAH! The DSPs of all electronics impart their own signature on the sound. I have noticed significant impact of the DTS Neo, Phantom, etc, on music playback (soundstage, tonal balanc, etc), that is why I only listen to music on the "Stereo" setting. Vladi- 4dB seems a bit high, but it will be HIGHLY room and equipment specific. I have mine set at +2.5 dB higer ("Upgraded" ACT-3 and Parasound 1205A) Now back to the music..... Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jef Posted May 13, 2003 Author Share Posted May 13, 2003 Hi dave, thanks for the feedback. I suppose the Klipsch engineers play with the cross-over frequency when they 'voice' the Centers, and that the different tuning is indicative of taking the differences of the enclosures into account. Unlike you I do notice the difference during playback not only with testtones. But I'm going to wait for my new receiver to examine the 'problem' further as I suspect that the present DSP is a major contributing factor and would like to have more control over the low pass settings. Based on the freestanding performance on top of the RF I think I will be able to get it right in the end. Best ... Jef Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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