dodger Posted June 1, 2003 Share Posted June 1, 2003 Greetings: Within the discussion of NOS Valves paying a house call, the topic of cymbals not sounding right on a CD. I did a dissertation of bass from LaScalas and the factors involved from recording on. I agree that cymbals do not sound right on CDs. To me violins also suffer the same - my Mother was a concert violinist so I feel familiar to discuss this. The main culprit is the digital reording or analog to digital. Our ears hear an analog sound as we hear the full amount of sound -timbre, full amount of tonality, overtones etc.. Digital attempts to assign its numbers even if there is an overtone that does not quite fit. Analog will match the instrument and all tones exactly if recorded properly. As I posted before, I find it amusing that units for home and professional recording are popping up toting "give your recordings that warm tube sound," or "give your digital recordings tha analog sound," along with more tube microphones coming to market. And now Sony is introducing turntables back into its main line. Makes you go hmmmmm. I am not putting digital down, it is a great medium, has many benefits. Just posting what was said about cymbals (I agree) and my observations about violin and tonality that falls in between the range of a digital assignment. Just my own opinions and hearing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leok Posted June 1, 2003 Share Posted June 1, 2003 I've found that at least one algorythm, the 192k sample/sec - 24-bit "upsampling" in the Philips "dvd963" makes cd rendition of cymbals and violins tolerable, and sometimes pretty good. I'm sure there are other approaches (other companies and products) that do a better job, as does the Philips, of maximizing what's available in a 16-bit, 44Ks/s recording, than the old 8x, 20-bit interpolation that has been around for so many years. Also, Philips uses class A amps (some approaches use tubes which are also class A), and most of us have been listening to op-amps as the cd player output which will make anything sound gritty. Try some of the latest generation of cd players. They're not records, or SACD (some will play SACD), but they will put new life into an existing cd collection. leok Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dodger Posted June 1, 2003 Author Share Posted June 1, 2003 Greetings Leok: Thanks for the tip. Algorythms, Logorithms - who'd have thought we'd be using all of these mathematics in audio. See kids STAY IN SCHOOL! Thanks Again, Win Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arena Posted June 1, 2003 Share Posted June 1, 2003 ---------------- On 6/1/2003 4:21:17 PM leok wrote: I've found that at least one algorythm, the 192k sample/sec - 24-bit "upsampling" in the Philips "dvd963" makes cd rendition of cymbals and violins tolerable, and sometimes pretty good. I'm sure there are other approaches (other companies and products) that do a better job, as does the Philips, of maximizing what's available in a 16-bit, 44Ks/s recording, than the old 8x, 20-bit interpolation that has been around for so many years. Try some of the latest generation of cd players. They're not records, or SACD (some will play SACD), but they will put new life into an existing cd collection. ---------------- Yes yes, I completely agree. I was never satisfied with the upper frequencies of my Sony DVP-NS700P as cymbals, violins, even the letter "s" sounded harsh or overexaggerated. So I recently purchased a Rega Planet and the difference is amazing. It's strange to do an A/B comparison between my new player and the dvd player, all the same sounds are there on both units, but there is a quality of tone on the upper frequencies of the Rega that I've never heard before. Granted, it took me a while to notice the difference, it's subtle, but it's definately there. Now cymbals shimmer the way they are suppossed to, and each cymbal seems to have a distinct individual tone. If you're not satisfied with cd technology, try some of the latest generation players, as Leok suggested. I've found they make cymbals actually sound like metal, violins actually sound like strings, etc. It's not analog, but it's getting to the point where the difference is tolerable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted June 1, 2003 Share Posted June 1, 2003 >24-bit "upsampling" in the Philips "dvd963" makes cd rendition of cymbals and violins tolerable, and sometimes pretty good. Sheesh, and I have Klipschorns and tubes for this? Like the rest, not knocking digital, but Redbook cannot and will not ever handle this. 24/96 or better, SACD, or LP only need apply. My ear ear little or nothing past 12k and they tell me that without question. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audio Flynn Posted June 1, 2003 Share Posted June 1, 2003 I have had a violin in the home but not played well in its brief visit. I do have a drum set and piano. If you have the real instruments to benchmark against it makes a difference. PWK had both a Bosendorf and Steinway piano in his living room with his K Horns. I am sure it influenced his work to recreate music in a full manner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnalOg Posted June 1, 2003 Share Posted June 1, 2003 All, Frankly on my Musical Fidelity A3cd player, I have no complaints of reproduction of cymbals, violin, and piano, its all there like live to my ears. Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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