Daddy Dee Posted July 19, 2003 Share Posted July 19, 2003 O.K. I don't have exactly the itch for spending the money to get cables when I could use the same bucks on an amplifier, but I am definitely curious about this. Having some kind of conditioner makes sense to me. And maybe having decent A/C cord from the conditioner to the component. But am I understanding the marketing claims right? How will a nice hospital grade five foot A/c cord attached to any component make it sound better when the current is coming through who knows what condition of transmission wires and then through the antique wiring in my own house? Appreciate your feedback here and thanks in advance for contributing to my electronics education. Regards, Dee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdm56 Posted July 20, 2003 Share Posted July 20, 2003 ---------------- On 7/19/2003 11:40:39 PM DaddyDee wrote: How will a nice hospital grade five foot A/c cord attached to any component make it sound better when the current is coming through who knows what condition of transmission wires and then through the antique wiring in my own house? Regards, Dee ---------------- If it cost's more, it is better. Period. It's one of the immutable laws of audiofoolery. Another immutable law of A-F: if it's bigger and heavier, it must ~be~ better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jnorv Posted July 20, 2003 Share Posted July 20, 2003 http://www.passlabs.com/pdf/powersupply.pdf At the end of this article, N Pass recommends 15 pounds minimum per $1000 of amp. Jim N Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WMcD Posted July 20, 2003 Share Posted July 20, 2003 Yeah, the super wire a.c. connection is nonsense. We might allow for an argument that they make a little better connection over the last five feet of the path from the generating station to our amps. What good can that do? Mr. Pass is certainly one of the most gifted and successful designer of amplifiers on the planet. He is also a good guy in that he publishes diy articles and tutorials. He has a dry wit which I'd love to assimilate. In the most recent diy project, which can be seen on his website, he does have some noise filtering for the a.c. line in the form a small value cap. But that is all. (I think the average computer power supply has the same. But I'm not sure whether that is to keep noise from coming in, or keeping it from getting out of the computer.) So he seems to give a nod to the notion that the a.c. mains have noise and it could be a good idea to do something about it. This is not to say that hospital grade connectors will do the same. I really find the huckserism of super wire to be offensive. Most of the offense is the high cost. On the other hand, if any given tweak is cheap and anybody wants to experiment, I'm in favor of it. Mostly because of the fun for pennies factor. The latter is a bargain. I love to tinker too. Gil Gil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fish Posted July 20, 2003 Share Posted July 20, 2003 If this ? were ask on some sites you would be threatened with banning.Until the electric co runs audiophile cable/equipment from the plant to your plug it may not matter much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pack Rat Posted July 20, 2003 Share Posted July 20, 2003 Keep in mind that the power that enters your home has been reduced from a much higher voltage that was used to transmit that power over long distances of cable. This makes it possible that the last few feet of cable to your equipment may very well make a difference. I converted my entire house to vintage cotton wrapped cable suspended on wall mounted spools. I sourced the cable from old condemned houses in the area. I don't think there is a piece of wire in the house that isn't at least 65 years old. If you try this yourself make sure you don't use wire from the World War II era which is aluminum and try to find glass spools they work better than porcelian. The sound system sounds great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pack Rat Posted July 20, 2003 Share Posted July 20, 2003 Just kidding about that second part! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcolm Posted July 20, 2003 Share Posted July 20, 2003 A hospital grade power cable will hot be better than any well constructed power cable of the same gauge in an audio system. It will stand up better in a harsh environment, but that is pretty much irrelevant for an audio system. Hospital grade is all about avoiding liability. FWIW a hospital grade power cable with molded connectors is pretty much guaranteed to have good connections between the wires and the connectors on the end of it, which is sometimes not the case with cheap cables. A hospital grade receptacle is better than a standard residential grade, or even most spec grade receptacles, because if nothing else, it will grip the blades of the plug better, yielding a lower resistance, lower noise connection. I guess one could make a case for a shielded power cable in some circustances, more to protect adjacent low level signals from noise than anything else. But for the most part, all that is required is that the gauge of the wire be sufficient to pass the current with minimal voltage drop and heat under expected operating conditions. What with cost engineering, manufacturers will more often than not choose the cheapest cable that will do an adequate job. So, it might be possible if you are really pushing an amplifier that going to larger gauge wire could improve performance if the power supply design is not adequate or an undersized cable was chosen to start with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daddy Dee Posted July 20, 2003 Author Share Posted July 20, 2003 Thanks y'all for your take on this. Dee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruinsrme Posted July 21, 2003 Share Posted July 21, 2003 Sounds like the same foolery as the monster cable modem cable. Shortly after my torturous divorce started I was hating life. To cheer myself up I went to a Good Guys in search of some type of computer gadget. this lady was in the process of buying a new computr and the salesman handed her a $30 3ft monster modem cable and told her it will increase her modem performance as much as 30%. Looking to share my misery I quickly and sarcastically lashed out, Are you telling her the other 5000 to 10000 ft of telephone cable doesn't make a ****, but with this last 3 feet it will increase her performance how much?. He looked at me with a snarl and she handed it back to him. Hospital grade cables have to meet certain standards. Doesn't mean the quality is better it just means it meets certain criteria, wire size, plug types, color and so on. I ahve such cables for my computer, worked in a metrology lab, no real difference it passes electricity just as well as the not hospital grade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gtDark Posted July 21, 2003 Share Posted July 21, 2003 Lol bruinsrme, I would have LOVED to see that! I've put together and taken apart a few hospital grade extension cords. The company I work for sells equipment to hospitals sometimes and the hospitals basically just want something that is UL listed so they won't be too liable. As far as the construction though, they differ from their Home Depot cousins by a molded plug, a little bit longer ground wire, and foil insulation to shield more RFI. Basically all these things just reduce the chance of sparking, which is absolutely critical in hospitals where extremely ignitable compressed/liquid oxygen is stored. This is just what I've discovered and been told. I don't really see how any of these things would be beneficial in a home audio scenario. Once again though these are just hospital grade cords, not "audiophile" power cords. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Garrison Posted July 21, 2003 Share Posted July 21, 2003 DISCLAIMER - I am not offering this thought as evidence that aftermarket power cords *DO* make an improvement, only that there might be at least some logical explination for why putting a different power cord into a system might change the sound of the system. okay then... It might not be a question of dealing with noise and grundge that is *ALREADY* in the power lines and doing something about it in the last few feet. It might be a question of *PREVENTING* noise and grundge from getting *BACK INTO* the power lines. Many audio components are noisy environments, electrically speaking. It is quite possible that a power cord might pick up some noise and hash coming from a receiver, or CD player, or cable box, or TeeVee set, or other device in close proximity to the cord, or into which the cord is plugged. This noise and hash could be passed back "downstream" and picked up by other components. Some cords might be more or less susceptable to this noise. It would seem that changing cords might do something that could affect the sound of the system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZAKO Posted July 21, 2003 Share Posted July 21, 2003 Nope. grundge will still be there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gtDark Posted July 21, 2003 Share Posted July 21, 2003 Anyone know where I can pick up some hash? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cluless Posted July 22, 2003 Share Posted July 22, 2003 If you want to stay somewhat legal try Amsterdam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fish Posted July 22, 2003 Share Posted July 22, 2003 ---------------- On 7/21/2003 4:02:40 PM gtDark wrote: Anyone know where I can pick up some hash? ---------------- downstream Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david5262 Posted July 23, 2003 Share Posted July 23, 2003 i don't know if this is going to help but here it goes. i am an electrician and for the most part cable is cable as wire is wire. the difference will be the connectors and how the cable or wire is attached. i have been searching for the same answers. i don't want to spend $300 on cables and $150 for wire. i have found someone who is selling 12awg twisted wire at $9.50 for 25ft. i bought 100ft for $42.50 including shipping so that comes out to .42 a foot. the person i bought it from is on ebay and his e mail address is mobilesoundusa1@yahoo.com if you look for twisted wire at 12awg it is usually around $1.50 ft and higer. i also found someone who will custom build any audio cable, you tell him the length and he makes it to that measurment. the cheapest guy to build these cables is jason jenson and he is also on e bay. his store is jt enterprises. the connectors are canare usuing the belden 1694a cable. the cost of the component was $33, digital audio cable $11, and my sub cable was $12. i currently own the wire and cables needed for an entire home audio system. i have to say i was shocked on how great the quality was. look for yourself and make your desion. (on ebay put in the search- (12 twisted best wire) (canare) for the cables. good luck. david Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBB Posted July 23, 2003 Share Posted July 23, 2003 This your brain on hash. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BobG Posted July 23, 2003 Share Posted July 23, 2003 A minor comment regarding hospital grade AC outlets. My limited experience with these taught me a lesson in ground loops. Typically, hospital grade outlets are each home run grounded back to the mains breaker box. Doing this may provide some margin of safety in the hospital environment and further minimize any opportunity to spark, but it's not good practice for audio systems. A single ground should be run to all of the outlets less you create ground loop noise. Caveat Emptore: I am no electrician. Don't play one on TV. Take this advice to your certified 120v contractor to make sure I'm not full of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcolm Posted July 23, 2003 Share Posted July 23, 2003 Bob, Are you thinking of the one's with isolated ground? They come in both flavors. Using the non-isolated ground ones on normal home circuits really reduced electrical noise at my house. Of course, any new receptacle would have helped. The old ones were 30 years old and not gripping too well. All my audio gear is now on a single, dedicated circuit to minimize the impact of noise generated elsewhere in the house. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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