jhawk92 Posted July 27, 2003 Share Posted July 27, 2003 Erik- Thanks. I can't classify myself as an informed tube user, let alone an expert, but hopefully starting off with the Scott 299 will give me some good experiences. Who knows, maybe I'll look into the separates thing at some point down the road. I just have to get the current system up and running good since when winter comes, and the baby arrives, my audio fund will dry up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daddy Dee Posted July 27, 2003 Share Posted July 27, 2003 Erik, This thread has been fun to follow. Alot of info to add to one's base of knowledge. errr... or well should add to one's base of knowledge. One thought for the name of this thread might be: "Baby Horus SINGS For the First Time!" Well, that could be saved for a thread after break-in. It is one amazing thought to think that these amps have changed the way you listen to music. Cool. Thanks for sharing this with the forum. Regards, Dee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted July 27, 2003 Share Posted July 27, 2003 "It is one amazing thought to think that these amps have changed the way you listen to music." Yes, and because of this, one should be able to see the inherent evil in these devices. There's something spooky and creepy about an amp that does this. Components simply should not do this. I want the way I listen to music to dictate the components I use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik Mandaville Posted July 27, 2003 Author Share Posted July 27, 2003 Thanks, Dee: "Horus sings for the first time" That would be good! Well, I have listened to little else other than my Moondogs for years, and I know their sound so well. I have wanted a little more sparkle and shine on things for a long time (meaning detail and quick transients), and tried all sorts of things to get that with the Moondogs -- including that output connection that works so well on the Horus. You never know what's going to happen when something you've made yourself is put into the system for the first time, and my wife and I stood in the listening room and waited -- what came out of the speakers was wonderfully airy and light, but had a liquid sort of body (this sounds like I'm talking about wine!)to it at the same time. It indeed was different from the Moondogs. Conventional OPTs are a sort of necessary evil, but that they have to sort of juggle a bunch of opposing things at the same time can compromise, among other things, bandwidth -- with roll off at extremes...in my case, I notice the differnce primarily in the upper mid and high frequencies. So the change has been a very welcome one. I had read about parallel outputs long before I ever tried to implement one, and just never explored it much. This was the perfect opportunity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daddy Dee Posted July 27, 2003 Share Posted July 27, 2003 Dean, What I hear Erik saying is something more like "When I listened to the Horus, it was like a veil was lifted" (to use a visual metaphor). I think that what you express as "evil" is certainly part of the danger of audiophilia and going off the deep end. But, the syndrome of which you speak is not at all what I hear Erik talking about. You might want to use a smiley face when talking about evil. Best Regards, Dee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted July 27, 2003 Share Posted July 27, 2003 Yeah, I forgot the smiley -- I was just kidding around after all. I understood what Erik meant. Hey, if you want to lift the veil, turn it up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunnysal Posted July 27, 2003 Share Posted July 27, 2003 Jeff, it will be my last amp, but I can still think about swapping up to Blackgates, cobalt OPTs, some minor circuit changes, you know, screw around...Dean, evil is TOO many watts. LOL, Tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leok Posted July 27, 2003 Share Posted July 27, 2003 Same resonance problem with RF-7s? No But the Chorus-IIs, as do your LaScalas even more, have so much more sensitivity in the midrange. I am asking much more of the Chorus-IIs than I ever asked of the RF-7s (which I am listening to now). I am thinking of a few areas where the issue may reside: 1) capacitor burn-in .. the sound of the mids through the Jensens continues to improve, 2) something in the amp design (which I have modified and maybe screwed-up), 3) something else. I have a lot to learn about using midrange horns, and 3-ways in general. They can be very impressive, but can get into trouble real fast if not treated right. Again, I am pushing what I expect of the system much more now that I have the Chorus-IIs. Just think of the trouble I could get into with a set of LaScalas .. oh well, next house. I'll post what I hear with Chris's Horus amps tomorrow. Maybe it's the 6SN7s .. that would be relatively easy. Enjoy your amps .. you probably have a combination of some of the best ideas going for SET design. leok Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik Mandaville Posted July 27, 2003 Author Share Posted July 27, 2003 Good luck with that problem, Leo. I'm sure you'll work things out! Yah, I agree with what you say about the Horus. I am already thinking of possibilities for experimentation -- direct coupling cathode follower in the input stage (which could require some subsequent reworking downstream, varying of resistor values, etc.)-- and this is simply crazy. The amplifiers sound marvelous, and I am making myself not continually tinker with an already great amp. I imagine your Moondogs (at least on the RF-7s)sound rather similar to the Horus. The parallel or shunt feed output just makes such sense, once you know what the advantages of it are compared to some of the downsides of conventional OPTs. I think you asked about the Lowthers in a previous post. You are right. That system consists of of course a single (almost) full-range driver (like Klipsch, incredibly high efficiency)in a rear loaded horn. The cabninet came as a pre-cut kit that, not having a good table saw, I put together. 3 way designs can pose some crossover design challenges, but I wonder what might be going on? Is there another way you can describe the 'resonance' you are talking about -- is this in the form of distortion, oscillation, both? I have used my Moondogs with La Scalas without problems -- they are just need quiet electronics in front of them, and NO PREAMP with nutty amounts of gain! That is a lesson I have learned with those things. As is, the remote on my little KLH DVD player is too loud for quiet listening at the first level. So it's time maybe to consider building a decent passive preamp/switch control. My interconnects are only two feet long, so this would work well. Again, good luck working things out with the Chorus, Erik Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted July 27, 2003 Share Posted July 27, 2003 Leo, any chance that you might be over-analyzing. If the problem was not apparent with the 7's, then it isn't the Moondogs. Geez Leo, it's not like the 7's have a sucked in midrange. I actually thought the 7's had every bit as much midrange as the Cornwalls, just not as "etched". Have you moved the Moondogs back onto the 7's for a careful listen -- it is unlikely that you of all people made a mistake while doing your mods. After all, things appeared to be working out quite well while you had them on the RF-7's. How about putting the PD6 or PP on the Chorus' -- have you done this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted July 27, 2003 Share Posted July 27, 2003 Don't you SET guys ever wish you could just throw in a CD or put on record and listen to the music without having to worry about what all the voltages in your amps are doing? Erik, this stuff looks appealing: http://www.dact.com/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leok Posted July 27, 2003 Share Posted July 27, 2003 Dean, All of what you said is possible. That's why I have to slow down and spend some time with the Chorus-IIs. I'm listening to a beautiful Shostakovich piano trio using the P6D and RF-7s. The system allows me to hear what the performers are doing with the instruments .. that's what I want in a system. The Chorus-IIs would tell me these things differently. I liked having the Forte-IIs and RF-7s .. I like even more having the Chorus-IIs and RF-7s. The resonance with the Chorus-IIs is at a particular, upper mid frequency, about 7KHz, and in that region, the RF-7s are all horn, so it's not the lower mid softness that I've always attributed to the RF-7s. It impacts a few very demanding string quartet recordings. Everything else is fine. The fact that the RF-7s don't have the problem is certainly not necessarily an RF-7 "fault." I do strive for a certain perfection from a system, and may have encountered an anomaly. When violins hit that frequency I'd prefer that the result isn't twice as loud as a note a few tens of Hz off. What I don't know is if I have to wait for a few caps to calm down, or should change them, or should look to the electronics. The fact that I can now enjoy the power of those string quartets at all is really the main point. Getting a glitch out of the system is exactly that. I'm very anxious to hear Chris's amps .. different topology and components .. should be very revealing. Meanwhile, the Shostakovich sounds fine. leok Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted July 27, 2003 Share Posted July 27, 2003 Maybe related to how the Doggies are responding to the impedance in that "problem" area? Below is for the Cornwall II, but still, it makes me wonder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leok Posted July 27, 2003 Share Posted July 27, 2003 Dean, Sorry, not about 7KHs, more like 4 KHz. And yes, the picture you show has me wondering too. The P6D wouldn't care, but the modified Moondogs might find the impedance peak interesting. Still, I really don't know and it may take some time for me to get this one figured out. Interesting that this kind of thing has a lot to do with the appeal of the RF-7 .. so clean. Thanks for the graph and interest. leok Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Robinson Posted July 28, 2003 Share Posted July 28, 2003 Was over at Leo's today for a resistor tweak (padding the input on the Horus) and had a chance to listen to his Chorus II's ... I must admit for a tower speaker, I've never heard anything like them. The combination of the Tractrix horn and the rear-facing passive woofer put them very much into the territory of the Klipschorn. I was VERY impressed. I have a buddy bidding on those vertical Cornwalls tonight. If they don't work out, I'll suggest the we look for a pair of Chorus II's. They sure sounded sweet with the Horus'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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