Cornwall/Scott 299B audition

[jhawk92]

Another week, another business trip, and another forum members system to audition. Hey, what more can you ask fora company-paid trip to listen to great audio gear! Seriously, I was in Washington DC this past week for several meetings and got to finally meet up with GaryMD to see/hear his Cornwall/Scott 299B system. I was really looking forward to it since my Chorus/Cornwall comparison was fresh in my mind from last weekend at Regs place, and it was going to be my first chance to hear what a 299B would sound like. I bought one about a month ago, sound unheard, thanks to all the great reviews here on the forum (so many names to list here) and it is currently at Craigs for its refurb.

At any rate, first things firstI had to check out the gear! Take a good look at those zebrawood Cornwalls. Wow, even though they are over 20 years old, they still look nearly new. The lacquer finish on them really makes the veneer stand proud. I can see why it is a sought-after veneer. It is quite lovely and makes the Cornwalls a beautiful piece of furniture. They are definitely one-owner beauties!! Great speakers Gary!!

Next up was the real reason I was therethe Scott 299B. Garys is in fantastic shape, with great lettering on the front, nice walnut cabinet with the grill, and a nearly complete factory set of tubes. Its nice to finally see one up close and really get to understand everything that folks are talking about. So far, the only contact with mine has been several pics from the seller and Craig as he started to work on it. We even took one with the tubes aglow!

Garys Cornwalls serve double duty as a 2-ch system with the Scott and as the mains of his HT system, with an Academy center and Klipsch WDST surrounds (forget the model.) A Sony WEGA widescreen handles the video and at some point Id like to get a demo of that unit. My 27 ProScan, while still in great shape, is starting to show its age thanks to a lack of component video inputs, 4:3 screen, and no DTV capabilities. But hey, its 10 years old so Ill hang onto it for a while longer while saving my pennies for a new one.

Well, after a slice of pizza, it was time to warm things up. We planned this as a CD-only audition, so we used Garys Technics CD player, which was routed through an equalizer, again, I forget the models, so he will have to step in with that info. First up was Diana Kralls When I Look Into Your Eyes to see if we could reproduce the same harsh notes that Reg and I heard on his Cornwall/Moondog combo. Track one is the culprit. Lets Face the Music and Dance has a couple passages where her voice seems to ring the Cornwall midrange horn with too much brightness. Im happy to say we heard the same issues with the Cornwall/Scott combo and I did last week with Reg. So I think this may be a combo of her voice and the Cornwall horn. As discussed in my Chorus/Cornwall post, my Chorus IIs did not have the brightness that the Cornwalls do, so it may be a feature of that model. I figure some rope caulk may do the trick.

We did try the passage with his EQ off and on, with the same results. Volume knob on the Scott was at about 2-3 for the entire evening as Garys family was home and we didnt want to blast them out. First impressions of the Scott were quite favorable, but Ill get to that shortly.

Next up were some of Garys favorites; some Grateful Dead (he is quite the Deadhead!) and a couple others which I wrote down, but lost my notes during the plane ride home. All of them sounded quite nice on the system, and we continued to play around with the EQ, some songs sounded a bit better with the EQ on, but I think I preferred the EQ off, especially with the rock music that followed. Gary alerted me before I came that he expected me to bring the rock selections, so I tried to bring a good selection, most of which are my standard audition CDs.

After some more pizza, Bostons Walk On CD hit the player, with tracks 4-7 giving us a great demo of the power that the Scott can send out. Again, volume was never above 3 the entire night, but the Cornwalls filled the room effortlessly. While you can never completely remember auditions, the Scott was able to reproduce more deep bass and slightly higher frequencies that Regs Moondogs, even as those were set to operate a 4.5W. I will be very interested to A/B the Scott 299 and the Moondogs at some later date.

Next up was Eagles, Hell Freezes Over with the live version of Hotel California. Quite nice on the Scott for sure. Gary actually had the DVD loaded up, so we did a quick comparison of the two, CD vs. DTS DVD. Gary has his Cornwalls toed in just right, so there is a phantom center channel when playing 2-ch music. By switching over to the DVD, the Academy took over the majority of the dialog and it didnt sound as nice as the Cornwalls. Granted, it doesnt have the frequency range, and I think some of the differences we noticed could be introduced by the DTS processing. Finished up with Life in the Fast Lane with its powerful drums thanks to Don Henley. I really wanted to crank it up to see how the Scott would do, but that will have to wait until mine arrives. I cant wait to see how the Scott compares to my SS Denon when delivering high volume listening. That song can really pound on your chest when the volume is up.

Moved into some Depeche Mode, which has some good synthesizers and more deep bass. As before, the Scott performed great, with some of the deeper notes coming through fine, whereas with the Moondogs, there was a hint of things missing. Enyas Watermark quieted things down for a while and we just enjoyed the tunes while chatting about all things audio.

Gary wouldnt let me put on any STYX, so I settled for Def Leppards Hysteria. I could definitely tell the Scott was ready to unleash some great volume levels if so inclined. We finished up the evening with a few tracks from the Phantom of the Opera. Here is where I started to learn about the magical qualities of tubes, and ones with some good power. The big organ that plays in the Overture at the start of the disc literally rumbled through the room, much more so than on the Moondogs. Later on in the disc, where Michael Crawford and Sarah Brightman are singing their duet, I heard more from both their voices than I had ever heard before, either on my SS Denon or the Moondogs. Michaels was fuller and Sarahs had incredible detail, especially in some of her solos. I am excited to explore more music and find new details that I havent heard before. I think the Scott and Cornwall is an incredible combo and my K-horns ought to really sing with the 299 providing sweet tube watts.

So, all in all, it was a very enjoyable evening and gave me things to look forward to at home. Since the 299B is rated at about 20W, does anyone know how the volume numbers convert to watts? If you were at 12 oclock on the dial (about 5 on volume), would you be at about 10W, or slightly more? Just wondering, and I may see if I can figure that out when mine arrives.

Again, thanks to Gary for hosting me. I figure well meet up again once he gets the Mac gear working. But from what I heard with the Scott, those Macs will have a lot to live up to; I now understand where Craig and other say that a well-tuned 299B can easily require several thousand dollars worth of separates to beat the sound quality it puts out. Id be willing to travel to audition a Fisher or some high quality separates!!

[NOSValves]

Rob,

Great review pictures and all !! Man those are some the nicest Cornwall speakers I have ever seen they score right up there with Chris Kings designer series !

Just to make your day your 299B is happily singing along and finished. Unless something pops up after playing till tomorrow night I will have it boxed and shipped out Monday morning.

Craig

[dubai2000]

jhawk92,

another great post - thanks. But I am a bit surprised that you rate the Scott more highly than the Moondogs. Granted, I don't know those and my Scott is only a 222c (which is a good amp!), but somehow I think that good as those vintage integrated amps are (I am including my Eico here), the better remains the enemy of the good. .

Still, I can imagine that the Scott/Cornwall combo sounded nice (although to be fair I am not sure about the CD player you have used) and we should be happy that there are many ways to create truly satisfying musical experiences.

Just my $.02

Wolfram

[NOSValves]

Wolfram,

Some people ears prefer the more laid back and smoothed out presentation of SET amps like the Moondogs or Wrights. Then there are those of us that want to hear the entire recording. I hate to put it so bluntly but I couldn't think of another way

Craig

[Deang]

I noticed in one of the early pictures that the contour switch (loudness) of the Scott is 'on'. Just an observation.

I think the 12 o'clock position is about it. You can go higher, but at that point you're severely cutting into your headroom and introducing some major distortion. Of course by then, the Cornwalls are about ready to shake lose.

[garymd]

Once again Rob, great review. I'd say very accurate also. My wife was still working in the basement writing a brief which was due in the morning so I tried to keep it somewhat under control although we did crank it at times (especially with Boston). Sorry about the Styx.

I've decided to take out the EQ permanently since way more CDs sound better without and almost all vinyl.

The CDs you wrote down were Chris Rhea (Road to Hell) and Dean Peer (UCROSS) who is the bassist we listened to last.

The most critical observation I made during the evening was the comparison of Hotel California on CD vs DVD fron Hell Freezes Over. While the DVD sounds great and gives you the 5.1, it really makes painfully clear the limitations of the academy. Sounded like a tin box after the CD (the voice coming from the same place with either).

Sorry we had to cut it a little short but since my wife can't drive anymore, duty called.

Thanks for the great pictures and I'm looking forward to our next meeting. Good luck with your scott! You'll love it!

Sincerely,

Gary

[dubai2000]

Craig,

no problem, but wait until you have built yourself a really great SET amp . I have the feeling that at least inwardly you will no longer say that SETs are only mids and not much else. .

Wolfram

[garymd]

----------------

On 7/26/2003 5:39:12 PM DeanG wrote:

I noticed in one of the early pictures that the contour switch (loudness) of the Scott is 'on'. Just an observation.

I think the 12 o'clock position is about it. You can go higher, but at that point you're severely cutting into your headroom and introducing some major distortion. Of course by then, the Cornwalls are about ready to shake lose.

----------------

Dean,

Yes we had the loudness on. Since Rob got a lot of jazz the prior session, we listened to mostly rock (some heavy, some not). I turned it off and on for Rob and we both agreed we liked it better on with what we were listening to. When I'm listening to Miles Davis or Sonny Clark or Sonny Rollins, etc., I often turn it off.

I've never heard moondogs or any SET amps so I have nothing to compare to. I may be auditioning some cornwall 2s Monday night with 8 watts of SET. I'll let you know what I think.

[Deang]

I believe Reg is using a solid-state preamp with the Moondogs. I dont mean to offend, but I dont believe this is a fair assessment of the Doggies capabilities. I believe the same regarding Erik using only his CD player to drive his amps. Ive tried these things, and just feel they fall way short.

[garymd]

BTW- I have nothing special as far as cables or CD player. The equipment is in my signature and my cables are a combo of monster and AR. In addition, the CD player is routed not only through the EQ but through a cheap tape deck which is out of sight behind the EQ. The better pioneer tape deck, along with my TT are currently in the basement with the macs. Once I get rid of the EQ I will have better direct connects. When I want to listen to vinyl I have to bring the TT upstairs, set it on the floor on top of an old shelf and hook it up (I usually make an evening out of it). As you can see, I'm currently out of shelf room.

My next purchase will be a progressive scan dvd/sacd/dvd-a player which will free up some room in my rack. Just waiting for prices on good units to come down a little.

[dubai2000]

I think Dean has raised an important point: synergy. Not all amps sound their best in combinations they don't take to.

Example: I have been able to listen to the 8B with four different preamps (three of which came to my house).

1) A Cayin preamp (a Chinese company of some reputation - in my house),

2) a Cello preamp (through La Scalas),

3) my own Wright pre,

4) my MX-110.

With no. 1 it sounded okay - nothing special - why talk about an 8B?

With no. 2 it sounded great - very detailed/transparent/smooth/ musical

With no. 3 good sound - close to no.2 but you cannot turn it down enough - it seems to play too loud

With no. 4 it sounds very good indeed - I'd probably use similar adjectives as when describing no. 2 (though for a more valid evaluation one would have to use both preamps side by side!)

Conclusion: any combo is only as good as its components fit together and what might look good on paper, might not sound that smashing in real life.

Wolfram

[arfz28]

Gary I think you will like the sound of your cornwalls better without the EQ, years ago I had an EQ and never could get it to sound good with the la scalas I had back then, I was always adjusting it and was never happy, I sold it. The EQ did a good job on a set of radio shack mock ones that I owed before the la scalas thow.Just my 2 cents worth.

[NOSValves]

Wolfram,

no problem, but wait until you have built yourself a really great SET amp . I have the feeling that at least inwardly you will no longer say that SETs are only mids and not much else. .

I'm sure that building the Horus amps will indeed give me a new respect for SET but I think you should keep in mind the cost involved in doing them as compared to other offerings even Moondogs or Wrights. The Horus amps would easily go for $6000 from a company like Welbourne or Cary and the like. These amps with Cobalt Transformers cost near $2500 just for the parts ! Moondogs could be built for I bet $600 to $800 or so ! It won't take me 2 seconds to decide to sell them and recoup my investment because they will still only be 3 watt amps ! 3 watts no matter how there made will never ever satisfy me for all my listening pleasure. You have to remember I have heard Moondogs and I was not at all impressed !

Craig

[kjohnsonhp]

I love the zebra wood and the condition....wow! I've enjoyed listening to the 222c w/Cornwalls...what a great value!

I look forward to mating my NOSvalves Scott 355 with my Dynaco ST-70 to power my Cornwalls. I think a DAC off Audiogon will be my next improvement.

[jhawk92]

Craig-

Thanks for the kind comments. Yeah, Gary's speakers are fantastic. I can bet people will be fighting over them unless he wills them to someone! I tried not to be too blunt on the SET/Scott comparison, but someone's post a few weeks ago kind of said it good; the SET smoothes things out, making things very sweet. The Scott hits you both in the highs and lows. I'm a believer of that now.

Now I'm really excited hearing that my 299B is nearly ready to come home. You should have email with my work address as the location to ship, so I know it will arrive.

Wolfram-

You bring up a good point. Reg has mentioned a couple times that his Acurus preamp is now the limiting factor in his equipment rack. So I figure he will probably be finding something new before too long. Maybe we'll hold off on our audition of Scott/Moondog until he gets a different pre. There I go, spending someone else's money!

But now that you mention it, I don't think I had the same flatness when I was auditioning Edster's 'dogs. I forget what preamp he was using at the time, though I know it wasn't the current Syrah. Granted, that was nearly a year ago, but they sounded awesome and full. I attributed much of that to his false corners. After listening to his system, I could certainly see myself eventually owning a pair of the Moondogs, but maybe I would end up with something that has a bit more power and still SET. I guess that means I'd have to look at a 300B? Guess I may be proving the point that different pieces of equipment can make or break your system. I don't know much about the preamps that you discussed, but I bet it was fun to play around.

Dean-

Yes, loudness switch was on. We played with in back and forth and for the rock selections, I prefered it switched in, but I'll certainly try it both ways when mine arrives. Good to know about the volume levels. Even at 2-3 with the Cornwalls, it was loud enough to effectively discourage us talking with each other. I can't imagine getting up to 5-6.

Gary-

Yep, quite a good time. There will be other visits I'm sure, as long as your family can put up with us! Thanks for the info on the other artists. I'll put those on the "to buy" list for the next time I hit Amazon. I'll certainly be interested in your 8W SET audtion and the CW's. Guess those are the walnut ones. Have fun. And I'm glad your are pulling the EQ. While it was cool to see how the different frequencies were acting, I think it colored the music more than I would prefer. Besides, if you move that out, then you have room for that DVD-A/SACD unit.

KJ-

Yeah, I bet that 355 will sound pretty good matched up with the ST-70. You'll have to post some info on that combo for sure.