WMcD Posted October 31, 2003 Share Posted October 31, 2003 Mike H is more clever than I am. I was going ask about getting gigawatts to juice the flux capacitor. Good posts. Gil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-MAN Posted October 31, 2003 Share Posted October 31, 2003 Hey, lighten up, dude. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WMcD Posted November 1, 2003 Share Posted November 1, 2003 Dude? Which dude? Smile, Gil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@silverfox@ Posted November 1, 2003 Share Posted November 1, 2003 for the most natural sound use #10 awg from HD the stranded verarity cant go wrong at the cost best 5 bucks i ever spent on audio. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VADER Posted November 2, 2003 Share Posted November 2, 2003 Buy Cardas & be done! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VADER Posted November 2, 2003 Share Posted November 2, 2003 You frigging people kill me. You wouldn't know Audiophile equipment if it was right in front of you. Klipsch are a "Bright" speaker, mainly do to the horns & the high SPL, that is why a lot of people use tube amps with them. If you are going with SS components you need a warm sounding amp coupled with warm cables/interconnects. Hell from what I have seen on this thread, I have more $$ in cables/interconnects than you do in your entire cheesy systems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBrennan Posted November 2, 2003 Share Posted November 2, 2003 Vader----It's wonderful that you are owning up to your delusional behavior, your next step should be to stop identifying yourself with cartoonish characters from movies, and no, calling yourself Frodo instead will not be a step forward. But good luck with your recovery and a speedy return to sanity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3dzapper Posted November 2, 2003 Share Posted November 2, 2003 VADER, To quote P T Barnum; "There is a sucker born every minute." Rick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougdrake Posted November 2, 2003 Share Posted November 2, 2003 "Hell from what I have seen on this thread, I have more $$ in cables/interconnects than you do in your entire cheesy systems." Not sure I'd wear that as a badge of honor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
formica Posted November 3, 2003 Share Posted November 3, 2003 ---------------- On 11/2/2003 11:15:45 PM dougdrake wrote: Not sure I'd wear that as a badge of honor ---------------- well said... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cn1790 Posted November 3, 2003 Share Posted November 3, 2003 Okay, for those of us who can't choose Cardas or tube amps to solve the bright horns problem what are the other solid options. Other than gauge of wire being important for longer runs I'm having a hard time trying to figure this out definitively as the ideas are all over the place. Is there a It's a Terrible Idea list where people have tried things that worked terribly? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael hurd Posted November 3, 2003 Share Posted November 3, 2003 Yup. Don't plug your speaker wires into the wall socket. Very loud, annoying 60 hz hum, then burning smell and smoke. Don't do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Garrison Posted November 4, 2003 Share Posted November 4, 2003 Things That Worked Badly. That's a cool idea. Ever notice how almost EVERY tweek someone tries makes things sound differently BETTER? Things never sound differently WORSE... Here's my contribution. I was in Home Depot some time back, looking at wire. At the time, I had La Scalas wired to amp with Audio Quest Type 4 - basic into level "audiophile" cable. Hey, it was cheap, I was curious... Anywho, I decided to try some basic solid core large gauge wire to see if I could hear any difference. I saw this, uh, stuff... bright yellow jacket, like 8 gauge, 3 conductor solid core wire. I don't know what it was. I bought some. Brought it home, hooked up speakers. Figured this was cool - super heavy duty wire, ought to really enhance the bass. Wife and I sat down to listen. She didn't know I'd made any changes. I cued up Lost In the 50's Tonight - Ronnie Milsap, one of her favorite songs. She looked at me after about 15 seconds and said "What's wrong with the stereo?" Sound was muddled. Bass wasn't better - was worse. No impact, muffled sounding. Highs were really rolled off. Just sounded terrible. I have no idea why. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBrennan Posted November 4, 2003 Share Posted November 4, 2003 CN----If you have a problem with horns that sound too bright the best solution is to get horns that don't sound too bright. That or try an equalizer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-MAN Posted November 4, 2003 Share Posted November 4, 2003 Gil, of course I didn't mean you... TBRENNAN: Here's some PHYSICS 101: Wires of any length introduce RESISTANCE in the signal path and also produce magnetic fields (at a loss of current); they are also susceptable to other magnetic fields (INDUCTANCE) which can only serve to alter the original signal further. Let's not leave out CAPACITANCE from having 2 conductive surfaces with differing charges separated by a dielectric along the length of the run. Granted, there is plenty of sales hype concerning speaker and interconnect cabling that has to be BS, but there is a factual basis in the performance of certain products due to the above considerations. Pooh-pooing the idea that wires of various types have different electrical performances is indicative of a uneducated mind. Perhaps the beginning of the word you wanted in your previous flame was "del" rather than "dil". I assume you meant "delusional" or "deluded". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@silverfox@ Posted November 4, 2003 Share Posted November 4, 2003 the proof of the pudding is in the eating!!good ,bad or indifferent.a closed mind creates self indulgence. the total impedance of any circuit includes all compolant , & wire Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WMcD Posted November 4, 2003 Share Posted November 4, 2003 D-Man, buddy, D-Man, Err, Tom B. gets a bit wound up. However, he and I are in some common camps. Not all. But some. I can not agree entirely that this is a matter of Physics 101. It is good starting point. But then we have to stick with it. And crank the numbers. The effects of inductance, capacitance, resistance of the wire are well known. Also, we have the speakers which have their own impendance. When you look at the numbers, the effect of the wire is very small as compared to the speaker load. This is why classically trained engineers discount the effect of wire. There is a number of jokers in the pack. One is that any fine fellow will say, I just bought super wire and found great improvement. The second is that the manufactureres of super wire feed theoretical nonsense. And people believe. Gil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3dzapper Posted November 4, 2003 Share Posted November 4, 2003 Ray Garrison, Of course your Audio Quest wires sound better than wire designed only to carry high current at 60Hz. that's why we use multi strand wire in audio applications. Do different wires sound different? Yes to a degree one has to find the combo that fits him and his own system, room and ears. But, those who command more than the cost of the rest of the system for wires are trying to rip us off and are laughing all the way to the bank (in the Caymens no doubt). I built 50'of 14 and 18ga silver plated OFC,Teflon insulated twisted by-wire cables for less than $75. Similiar quality cables at a "audiophile" store would sell for upwards of $1000. And the manufacturer's costs would be less than mine! If your filling station sold gasoline worth $1.50 for $1500 a gallon everybody would revolt. But audio cables? As I said above "There is a sucker born every minute". Rick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Warren Posted November 5, 2003 Share Posted November 5, 2003 ---------------- On 11/4/2003 9:36:15 PM D-MAN wrote: Gil, of course I didn't mean you... TBRENNAN: Here's some PHYSICS 101: Wires of any length introduce RESISTANCE ---------------- Let's look at resistance because that has the largest effect. Lets say we have 10' feet of two lead wire between the speaker and the amp (20' of loop resistance). I run 20' of 12AWG = .032 Ohms Vader runs 20' of 4 AWG because he took Physics 101 and "knows" better = 0.0053 Ohms Vader has 1/6th the resistance in his speaker wires!!! We both have 8 0hm speakers. So I have 8 + .032 Ohms = 8.032 Ohms total loop resistance Vader has 8 + .0053 Ohms = 8.0053 Ohms total loop resistance So Vader has (8.032/8.0053) = 1.0033 X more current flow in his wire than I do for the same impressed V. Or, looking at it another way, his 4AWG will allow 1/3 of 1% more current to flow. Looking at this from an acoustic power level this corresponds to .027dB. And resistance is the "largest" effect. Perhaps Vader will impose the "power" of the "FORCE" to explain his "physics". (ps- The above discussion assumes good quality, OFHC wire manufactured and certified to ASTM standards. This includes good old, MADE IN USA Carol Cable wire and not the Chinese crap sold at RadioShack, Best Buy, CC, CSW, etc...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hwatkins Posted November 5, 2003 Share Posted November 5, 2003 These conversations are so endearing. I have been won over and I am in the process of running #2 AWG to all speakers. I picked up the new connecting lugs at Home Depot - the connection box is only slightly larger than the back of my Heresy which should be no problem. I am running into a bit of a snag as I internally wire my speakers with the same #2 AWG - it is making the Xovers a bit unwieldy. I will take the Xovers to a separate box and feed the individual speakers from there. After I rewire the connections for the speakers (looks like both the solder connections and the push tabs have to go) and build the appropriate box to house them I should be set. The whole configuration leaves me with a Heresy that is only slightly larger than a Corner Horn, but should yield an additional .05db. I am finally happy with my sound..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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