John Warren Posted May 20, 2004 Share Posted May 20, 2004 ---------------- . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Klappenberger Posted May 20, 2004 Share Posted May 20, 2004 Elso, Please re-read what I said! Consider: What do you measure to quantify the sound of a "frying pan"? This is clearly a listening impression! Besides, I said this was OTHER people's impression. I have never heard the CP21 and said so! All I said was that I was happy with the CP25 an didn't have any interest in trying a "slot". I am not immune to subjective conclusions anyhow. Nobody is! Al K. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shock-Late Posted May 20, 2004 Share Posted May 20, 2004 Elso, I'm not sure about the "frying pan" sound of slot tweeters. But what i know for sure is that from the different CP tweeters in the Beyma range, only the CP25 is described by Beyma as ideal for sound reinforcement AND studio monitoring use. There must be a reason why it is supposed to -again according to the manufacturer's own words- sound more "hi-fi" than the other tweeters in the range, be it the shape of the horn or something else (altough I think they all share the same diaphragm and magnet assembly). Just my 2 pences. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jax Posted May 21, 2004 Share Posted May 21, 2004 Speaking of "Frying Pans", I just recently got a pair of Fane 5020 slotted tweeters which are rated at 110db efficiency and started playing with them on my Scalas. Al, I'm currently using your crossover in a biwire configuration. Interesting results, but no frying pans to be heard so far. Jury is still out. Initial impressions is that the the K77 seem to be a bit louder around the crossover region. The clarity and detail of the Fane's seems superior in all respects, but with some music it stands away too much while the k77's are seemless. I have to try a few different settings on the sqwawker though to see if I can balance it out better, If I can I think it has great potential. Al, have you (or anyone here) considered the Fane as a substitute? These are the tweeters used on the Edgarhorns. Any input would be most welcome! Best, Marco Prozzo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shock-Late Posted May 21, 2004 Share Posted May 21, 2004 Hum... OK so basically I'm still not sure I'm gonna order the CP25... I'm tempted, but not sure i'm gonna like it better than with the K77... wish I could try them before but no way! Al, I looked at your site, I would mount the tweeter the same way as you did, with the cheeks horizontal. I often see JBL baby cheeks mounted the other way but the horn seems to be quite different, not a pure bi-radial like the Beyma is... That said it's quite funny that it's almost impossible to find any clear information about "THIS is the 100° dispersion, this is 60". it's like they know it when they design the tweeter but are unable to remember it later... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Klappenberger Posted May 21, 2004 Share Posted May 21, 2004 Guys, I have not had any experience with the Fane tweeters. I have not even heard of them! If Bruce Edgar is using them, they must be pretty good. I think that point alone makes them worth looking into! Can you direct me (us) to some details about them? As to slots. I am using a set of Beyma CP09 tweeters in my "Heresy on steroids" speakers in the den HT. These are definitely constant directivity tweeters according to Beyma and do have a slot. They look very much like the JBL tweeter. I have not had any hint of anything suggesting a frying pan sound. In a HT application you might simply not hear it though. Measurements show they go nicely to about 21 KHz but they require equalization. That reduces their sensitivity to about 90 dB. I am not sure Beyma is making that model any more though. One tip-off to the mounting position of the CP25 is the way the drawing is shown on their "pdf" spec sheet. This is how I mounted mine and I think it's a pretty strong "suggestion" from Beyma as to how to mount it. Al K. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jax Posted May 21, 2004 Share Posted May 21, 2004 ---------------- On 5/21/2004 9:20:59 AM Al Klappenberger wrote: Guys, I have not had any experience with the Fane tweeters. I have not even heard of them! If Bruce Edgar is using them, they must be pretty good. I think that point alone makes them worth looking into! Can you direct me (us) to some details about them? Al K. ---------------- Hi Al- Fane tweeters are made in England. I've attached the pdf of the specs of their four tweeter offerings including the ST5020 slotted tweeter I have. In case the download doesn't work you may also download the specs on this page of their website: http://www.fane-acoustics.com/public_html/pages/products2/hfunits1.htm I will be curious to hear what you think based on those specs. One downsided is they are rather large at about 5 inches across. They use a 90 oz magnet so are also pretty heavy (I'd guess about 5 lbs each). One additional concern that I do not know enough about to really understand, is a spec not mentioned on the sheet, but that is mentioned on the enclosed sheet with the tweeters. I don't have it in front of me as I'm writing this, but from recollection, it says that the requirements for an electronic crossover (aside from the 6K crossover point) ask for 18db at 5000hz. Looking at your graphs Al, it seems that your crossover puts that point at about 3500hz if I'm reading it correctly. Then again I'm completely out of my realms of understanding in making that observation. What is the significance? Marco Prozzo HiFreq.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shock-Late Posted May 21, 2004 Share Posted May 21, 2004 I'm not into cross over design at all, but I think it means when using the tweeter in multiamplification with an electronic crossover, the slope should be at least 18dB/oct. I'd say it's a matter of power handling. Maybe I'm all wrong, tho. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Klappenberger Posted May 21, 2004 Share Posted May 21, 2004 Guys, Marco was good enough to email me the specification sheets on the Fane ST5020 slot tweeter. It is rated 110 dB for 1W sensitivity. This is to high and needs to be cut down to work in a Khorn or La Scala. With my netwrok it will effectively be 3 dB hoter yet becasue of the lower loss in the tweeter filter compared to the AA. This means he needs an attenuator. I suggest an adjustable "L pad" set to between 5 and 8 dB or so. AL K. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lee hankins Posted May 24, 2004 Share Posted May 24, 2004 Al, I call Beyma USA in New York, (your posted numbers were not active) and they would not sell the CP25 direct, I was referred to the US Dist., US Speaker, their price is $149.00 Each. No more $60 CP25's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted May 24, 2004 Share Posted May 24, 2004 I will join the bid at 60 for 2 if a new batch shows up, let me know, also looking for 511Bs... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dhsettim Posted May 26, 2004 Author Share Posted May 26, 2004 Try http://diyparadiso.com/price/stock-speakers.htm they are still advertising them foe 56Euro--approx US$60 tho that may be old price. Benny is good to deal with. tim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Klappenberger Posted May 26, 2004 Share Posted May 26, 2004 Lee, I was under the impression that Beyma of America would sell to anyboy. I was able to get them. If there is a market, I would supply them at a light mark up. Email me. Al K. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted May 26, 2004 Share Posted May 26, 2004 Those slotted things, aren't they referred to as Constant Directivity types. I know they're not all the same, but I got hear some of these type horns on some Dayton Audio cabinets at Parts Express recently -- pretty awful sounding stuff. I guess the "frying pan" deal is easiest to hear with live recordings where you have crowd applause, or movies with the sound of falling rain in them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Klappenberger Posted May 27, 2004 Share Posted May 27, 2004 Dean, The only slot speaker I have had any experience with the Beyma CP09. I am using a set in my "Heresy on steroids" speaker in the den. It's only working from 6000 Hz up. I really don't hear anyhting wrong with it. The "frying pan" effect is its reputation. I really don't know! My guess is that it happens with the high frequency horn half of 2-way systems that use the slot. Al K. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daddy Dee Posted May 27, 2004 Share Posted May 27, 2004 I was able to score a pair of CP25's on Ebay. Seller is in Canada, so it could take a while for them to arrive. Al, I do think you'd have a market for Beyma drivers if you wanted. I had the same experience with Beyma. They would not sell direct to a consumer but referred me to usaspeakers or whatever the website is. Their web direct price is 149.94 EACH! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Klappenberger Posted May 27, 2004 Share Posted May 27, 2004 Guys, Ok.. It looks like I'll be ordering some CP25 tweeters soon. Anybody who wants a set, call me. I'm not going to sell them at my cost though. I think $95 each plus shipping cost is reasonable since the other outfits want $149 each for them. Al K. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted May 27, 2004 Share Posted May 27, 2004 ALK, I will order a pair tonight you are the same price as the guy in EU, so I would much rather give the business to you, I appreciate the effort you put into answering everybodys questions, besides ALK crossovers have been on my wish list for years and I want to make sure you can match the mid and upper horns I use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Klappenberger Posted May 27, 2004 Share Posted May 27, 2004 Colin, Glad to help. Call me.. Al K. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted June 9, 2004 Share Posted June 9, 2004 I am waiting to hear from ALK first: I was recently quoted $125 USD for both tweeters with shipping (from Paradiso guy)... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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