mark1101 Posted November 3, 2003 Share Posted November 3, 2003 Guys, I had Craig do the rebuild job on both of the Scott amps listed below. Both sound excellent. However, I really don't understand that well the difference in sound you can achieve with different tubes, and which sections govern the sound most. Craig put Russian outputs in the 299, but I think the 222 still has the original Scott tubes and some Telefunkens. Question: I see 3 section of tubes on these amps. One is a row up close to the controls with the shields on (several tubes), moving toward the rear of the unit a row of 2, then the 4 output tubes (I know these). Which are the best sounding for each section? Which ones make the most difference. Craig will probably chime in and tell me to leave everything alone (before I #$%k it up). We have messed with these amps quite a lot to get them to where they are now, which is excellent. (Craig: Don't worry I'm not touching a thing !!!) But now I need to learn the info on the tricks of the tube trade that I don't know. One last question, other than the output tubes, if you change any of the others, are there any adjustments that need to be made to the amp? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hurdy_gurdyman Posted November 3, 2003 Share Posted November 3, 2003 Using different small tubes will not mess up anything as long as you use the same tube type. Different brands will have a slight difference in tone quality. Changing the output tubes will require that the bias and balance be checked and adjusted if needed. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnalOg Posted November 3, 2003 Share Posted November 3, 2003 Craig will probably chime in and tell me to leave everything alone (before I #$%k it up). Ya Craig can get a little obsessive in nature, thats what makes him Craig. The small driver tubes up front will yield you some audible results. You can fine tune the system to the sound you like by changing out these tubes. Go for it, its all fun. Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark1101 Posted November 3, 2003 Author Share Posted November 3, 2003 Ryan, Thanks for all the good info. I suspected that the original tubes would sound the best. But it is hard to know that since everyone on this forum constantly talks about the sound characteristics of other types and brands, and experiments. The most important info to me is which ones govern the sound quality the most. I don't expect to change anything any time soon though. Craig has both these amps really singing sweet. I don't really expect either to sound any better than they do right now since I heard them both before they were rebuilt. I know I have all good tubes. The 222 has all the originals you mentioned, and all tested good and matched acceptably to Craig. The 299 has all the originals as well except for the Russian outputs. Craig returned the originals to me but they don't match any longer and are a little weak. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted November 3, 2003 Share Posted November 3, 2003 Mark !! Leave the darn things alone !!!! I had to say that or someone would think I'm sick or something LOL !! But seriously you have the best tubes that you could have in both amps ! But if you want to roll tubes go for it ! Keep in mind you can not set the AC balance so rolling thise 6BL8's will render the AC balance I did useless ! The 222 you can roll the outputs with little worry and also the 12AX7's The 299 you need to rebias if you change the 7189's . Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkrop Posted November 3, 2003 Share Posted November 3, 2003 Hey all! This same question has been rattling around in my head for a while! I have a 299-C rebuilt by Craig, a 7199 variant, since I got it back with no 7199's in it I assume it does not need anything done when rolling these "split load phase inducers" AKA widgets, or the preamp tubes. So I only need to balance/bias when rolling/replacing the output tubes? ( aside from routine checks), how about the rectifier? What was the original tube set up (manufacturer wise,since many were relabled as Scott.) Does anyone have any med to strong testing matched pairs of Tele ecc83 at a reasonable(fair market price for the ability to purchase from someone I "know through the forum" ) please PM me. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fini Posted November 3, 2003 Share Posted November 3, 2003 Geeze, and I always thought they were there just for show, kind of like a Lava Lite. fini Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garymd Posted November 3, 2003 Share Posted November 3, 2003 My Marantz 7C came with 5 telefunkens and 1 mullard (has 6 12AX7s). They all look to be approximately the same age, same dust build-up, lettering wear, etc. I was told by a Marantz expert that it's possible it came that way from the factory or the original owner attempted to tone down the brightness some by swapping one of the teles for the mullard. Any tube/Marantz folks out there agree/disagree? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark1101 Posted November 3, 2003 Author Share Posted November 3, 2003 Hey Craig, I just knew you would jump in and tell me not to touch anything. If I wanted something different I would just call you up and ask. But I do like to hear what everyone else is using and what they think of certain tubes. I never undrestood any of that. After all this time and and money and finally having these excellent little amps and my KLIPSCH sounding so good, I'm not touching anything. I really don't think they could sound any better unless there is some expensive mod that could be performed. Don't worry I'm very satisfied, and my kids need Christmas presents. I like getting you excited though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkrop Posted November 3, 2003 Share Posted November 3, 2003 Oh Craig gave me the option of switching tubes but i chose to stick to stock,sso that even more expensive I can get that sound from 7199 tubes and the Scott! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted November 3, 2003 Share Posted November 3, 2003 Ryan, There nothing wrong with 7199 except there cost. We have been there done this arguement before ! What the heck of axe to grind do you have with RCA anyway ? Mark, Really if you want to tube roll go for it. Oh and one more thing your output tubes in the 222 are Amperex Bugle boys a real sweat tube. Scott used Telefunken and Amperex output tubes. BK, Your amp from the factory would have Telefunken 12AX7's USA 7199's most likely RCA , and USA 7591 GE ? Mullard 5AR4 Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garymd Posted November 3, 2003 Share Posted November 3, 2003 ---------------- On 11/3/2003 9:52:05 PM NOSValves wrote: Ryan, There nothing wrong with 7199 except there cost. We have been there done this arguement before ! What the heck of axe to grind do you have with RCA anyway ? Mark, Really if you want to tube roll go for it. Oh and one more thing your output tubes in the 222 are Amperex Bugle boys a real sweat tube. Scott used Telefunken and Amperex output tubes. BK, Your amp from the factory would have Telefunken 12AX7's USA 7199's most likely RCA , and USA 7591 GE ? Mullard 5AR4 Craig ---------------- From what I understand after speaking to others than just Craig on the subject, those bugle boys, which I also have in my 299b, really help give the scott that wonderful detail. They are a little bright at first but once broken in really make a difference. I'm glad I spent the extra $$ to have them put in mine. I wouldn't recommend swapping them out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hurdy_gurdyman Posted November 3, 2003 Share Posted November 3, 2003 A comment on 7199 tubes. I have owned several stereo amps that used this tube, Every one of them had hum I couldn't get rid of. Changing the 7199 tube always changed the hum, but nevr got rid of it. Adjusting hum balance pots wouldn't get rid of it, nor did putting in new electrolytics in the power supply. A couple of tube swaps almost got rid of the hum. I came to the conclusion that this tube was extremely fussy and had a lot of variances in manufactering quality. I have avoided amps with 7199's since. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tillmbil Posted November 3, 2003 Share Posted November 3, 2003 Now we are talking tube rolling, I guess this hobby never ends. Craig, am I going to be happy with the EH's or is there a definitely better alternative that I should try? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark1101 Posted November 4, 2003 Author Share Posted November 4, 2003 OK, maybe I need to go back to Newbie status, but I'll ask anyhow. What the heck is "tube rolling"? Is it rotating the tubes from socket to socket, or just moving them around in the socket they are in? Or is it some other obscene activity that you guys all do? Don't know if I could get into that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fini Posted November 4, 2003 Share Posted November 4, 2003 ---------------- On 11/4/2003 8:53:31 AM mark1101 wrote: OK, maybe I need to go back to Newbie status, but I'll ask anyhow. What the heck is "tube rolling"? Is it rotating the tubes from socket to socket, or just moving them around in the socket they are in? Or is it some other obscene activity that you guys all do? Don't know if I could get into that. ---------------- Oh, no! Another person with a sense of humor! What will we do?? Great post! Mark, I loved the transistor rolling concept, too. Can I drop by for some o' that? fini Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fini Posted November 4, 2003 Share Posted November 4, 2003 No! They nabbed Nipper? fini Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrot Posted November 4, 2003 Share Posted November 4, 2003 Nipper and Chipper are safe with me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrot Posted November 4, 2003 Share Posted November 4, 2003 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted November 4, 2003 Share Posted November 4, 2003 Man RCA is just a bunch of thieving Liars !! I still wonder if they bonded your first born child into slavery or something Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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