ARE ALL WATTS EQUAL

[big c]

I have the DENON 3802 110 watts per channel, if i was to run my fronts with the same 110w or even 100w per channel from a 2 channel amp. How much of a improvement would i get assuming i get a good amp (rotel,b&k,parasound) just to name a few.

[j-malotky]

Dear GOD NO... Not all watts are equal when it comes to AMPS!!!

A watt as a unit of measure of power is just that, but the grade of Amplifier and quality of that watt makes all the difference in the world.

It is very possible to get a 50 watt McIntosh SS amp louder than a 200 watt Yamaha receiver for example.

JM

[Deang]

With solid state, forget the watts, and check the amperage rating instead. A good rule is to always buy your amps by the pound. Most 7 channel, 150 wpc HT receivers weigh 30 pounds less than something like an Aragon 8008 2-channel amp. Makes you wonder doesn't it?

[Piranha]

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On 12/11/2003 12:12:02 AM DeanG wrote:

With solid state, forget the watts, and check the amperage rating instead. A good rule is to always buy your amps by the pound. Most 7 channel, 150 wpc HT receivers weigh 30 pounds less than something like an Aragon 8008 2-channel amp. Makes you wonder doesn't it?

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I'll take the Aragon with heritage speakers thank you.

[MrMcGoo]

All watts are not the same for the reasons already given. Not only is amperage important, the ability to drive 4 ohm and 2 ohm loads is important. The RF-7 dips to about 3 ohms just under 80 Hz. Although the RF-7 is very sensitive, it benefits from a good SS amp that can drive low impedance loads.

Bill

[tillmbil]

Interesting question. Watts should be the same but sound is definitely different. If you current receiver has preouts, I would just add an external amp. Now you would recognize a difference with wattage and sound quality.

[Colin]

You said that just to provoke an argument right? Watts is watts. Yeah, right.

Technically, amplifiers on a test bench may measure the same when they are not clipping, but that ignores the impedance curve of loudspeakers and the brief microsecond bursts of musical passages. Both of these require sudden and extra oomph from the amplifiers, giving each one a slightly unique favor to its presentation, especially with super-sensitive big ole horns.

I have heard only a few amplifiers on my big ole horns. The best was clearly the superlative Pass X250 concrete monster amplifier, which puts out 75-watts of Class A power before switching into A/B mode. It is capable of not only 500 watts into a 4-ohm load, but also 1000 watts into a 2-ohm load. Yet it still sounds almost as sweet as flea-powered Bottlehead 2A3 Paramour monoblocks. This amplifier never switched into class A/B on my big ole horns. In fact, my hefty, vintage, $250 solid-state, Class A, 22-watt, Pioneer M-22 dual-monoblock amplifier sounded more similar than different at normal volume levels.

Having said that, adding another amplifier will certainly improve the sound. Many people will suggest you get something similar to the front amplifier to keep the sound the same.

The God of the monster amplifiers, Nelson Pass, has a good article at his site suggesting why Class A amplifiers should be considered by the pound. He says they should be 1 pound per watt. Indeed, my Pioneer M-22 dual-monoblock amplifier weighs 60 pounds and puts out 60-watts maximum (at high THD).

Thank goodness the RF-7 doesnt dip any lower, those low impedance swings challenge weaker amplifiers. As much as I love big ole horns, loudspeakers I have seriously auditioned - in my home, with the same equipment and the same music, for EnjoyTheMusic.com. - which dipped to 2-ohms, in my opinion inevitably sounded better, especially in the bass, with solid-state amplifiers instead of tube ones.

[sfogg]

Dean,

" A good rule is to always buy your amps by the pound."

And like every rule there are exceptions. I have a 38lb amp that puts out 500w/ch into 8 ohms and does it extremely cleanly. Into a 2 ohm load it puts out 1250w/ch.

The reason it's weight is so low compared against the power is because it is a digital amp. Since it is so efficent it doesn't waste a lot of energy so the PS doesn't have to be as overbuilt to also handle the wasted energy. And at the same time since there isn't nearly as much energy being wasted as heat the unit needs very little in the way of heatsinking.

Shawn

[sfogg]

Colin,

" Technically, amplifiers on a test bench may measure the same when they are not clipping, but that ignores the impedance curve of loudspeakers and the brief microsecond bursts of musical passages. "

While this may be true it also means on the test bench the proper measurements weren't made.

Shawn

[JohnA]

In a word, YES, ALL WATTS ARE EQUAL.

All Power amps are not equal. Each will respond differently to the varying impedance curve of the loudspeaker and each will behave differently when driven to clipping or when driven at microwatts that Klipsch speakers typically need.

I've had receivers that run and sound pretty good until clipping and then they sound horrible and seem to take seconds to return to normal after the crescendo. Others would clip and move on as though nothing happened. One Yamaha clipped rather softly so that I was never entirely sure when it clipped.

I can easily hear the difference between high and low damping factors and ususlly can hear the difference between Class A and Class AB on the one amp I had that I could switch between classes.

My limited experience with highly recommended tube amps was underwhelming. The $10k Mac tube amps I heard sounded well enough in a completely unfamiliar system.