minn_male42 Posted December 28, 2003 Share Posted December 28, 2003 just got the telarc sacd recording of the 1812 overture by erich kunzel and the cincinnati pops orchestra... a truly amazing recording.... the disc even has a warning printed on the cover concerning the high volumes of the cannons during the 1812 overture.... as i was listening to this remarkable recording i thought about the many SET amp owners on this forum who could not experience the extreme dynamic range of this recording due to the limitations of their amps... my carver professional ZR1000 was hitting over 150 watts per channel on peaks during this sacd.... with extreme amount of instrumental detail during quiet passages and dead silence between tracks.... you can extol the virtues of your SET amps all day long...but if you can't listen to certain types of music...those amps are not for me.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrMcGoo Posted December 28, 2003 Share Posted December 28, 2003 Russ, The Telarc recording of the 1812 is SACD at its best. I cannot immagine 150 watt peaks in my listening room on the 1812. Do you have any idea as to the SPLs generated by these peaks? This is the only recording that I turn down the gain on the subwoofer. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minn_male42 Posted December 28, 2003 Author Share Posted December 28, 2003 the 150 watt peaks are very brief..... with my KLF-30's and their 102db efficency it would be unbearable in my room for more than brief moments... but even knowing that they are coming (the cannons) i still jump every time.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T_Shomaker Posted December 28, 2003 Share Posted December 28, 2003 that cd is awesome Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg928gts Posted December 28, 2003 Share Posted December 28, 2003 I'm sorry, but you can extoll the virtues of high spl all day, but in the end, if you can't hear, you can't enjoy ANY music. This is not a personal attack, just something that I think everyone needs to be aware of. I used to be into high spl, but now that I've discovered how nice the SET amps sound, there's no going back for me. The trick is to get the sound quality of SET, with a little more power to drive the low end. Heh Heh. Greg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minn_male42 Posted December 28, 2003 Author Share Posted December 28, 2003 i'm not "into" high spl's.... in fact i listen at relatively low spl's about 90 to 95% of the time.... i just want to hear the music as the composer and/or artist intended.... i have heard the 1812 overture live with cannons.... that live performance had extremely high spl's.... as well as very very quiet passages.... i can recreate all of that musical performance in my system.... you cannot!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prodj101 Posted December 28, 2003 Share Posted December 28, 2003 150 watts on klf 30's? thats insane man, you're insane. I'd rather keep my hearing and listen at my usual 85-90 db. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minn_male42 Posted December 28, 2003 Author Share Posted December 28, 2003 as i stated above.... those were very brief peaks.... and only about 8 times in the recording during the cannon blasts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benesesso Posted December 28, 2003 Share Posted December 28, 2003 Something doesn't add up here. I'd think that the Hz of those cannon shots would be down in your subwoofer range, which is self-powered. Are you sure you don't have a case of VU meter needle overshoot? I happen to have that CD, and the cannon shots don't hurt your ears because the Hz is so low. You pop on over here to Italy and I'll let you hear them at a level that your sub and amp. would probably catch fire trying vainly to reach--800 watts into 2 18" driver-dia. folded-horn enclosure of 28 cubic feet each. So don't be so quick to put down SET's-they can have real big brothers lurking behind them. My SETs are only 3.5 watts each-far more than enough w/Khorns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prodj101 Posted December 28, 2003 Share Posted December 28, 2003 I just ordered the SACD. I personaly think something is up, I'm not calling you a liar but 150 watts is ALOT of power. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minn_male42 Posted December 28, 2003 Author Share Posted December 28, 2003 "Something doesn't add up here. I'd think that the Hz of those cannon shots would be down in your subwoofer range, which is self-powered." i have my front speakers set to large and the sub is crossed over at 40 hz.... i don't know how you have your system set up... but the LED's on my amp were showing those peaks...(not VU needles) and you must not be hearing everything in the cannon shots... there is a great deal of sound in higher frequencies.... there is cannon sound coming from all channels... the fronts, center and surrounds... (it is alot quieter on the surrounds - but it is there) maybe your SET amp is not reproducing all of the sound.... additionally... are you listening to this in multichannel??... i am using the multichannel outputs on my sony sacd changer... so if there is cannon sound in the 5 channels other than the woofer...it wouldn't matter where i set my subs crossover.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrot Posted December 28, 2003 Share Posted December 28, 2003 Remember, we're talking in the millisecond area for these peaks. That's not going to hurt one's hearing. People go deaf from day-in, day-out loud noise levels. Hearing loss is a lot less common than in the old days because most people now wear some kind of hearing protectors. Lots of people used to lose their hearing permanently from operating jackhammers or working metal presses at auto factories. But that is an entirely different thing. Low-watt amps cannot do cannons. They can give a general idea of a cannon blast, but not faithfully to what is on the recording. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minn_male42 Posted December 28, 2003 Author Share Posted December 28, 2003 I just ordered the SACD. I personaly think something is up, I'm not calling you a liar but 150 watts is ALOT of power. you will definitely enjoy this disc.... too bad you won't be able to hear it in multichannel.... and if you don't believe the 150 watts....just crank up the volume from the start.... hopefully your amp and speakers will survive the cannons at the 12:35 mark...(first cannon) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prodj101 Posted December 28, 2003 Share Posted December 28, 2003 how many db? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minn_male42 Posted December 28, 2003 Author Share Posted December 28, 2003 i'm going to borrow a spl meter from work tomorrow and i will report back Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheltie dave Posted December 28, 2003 Share Posted December 28, 2003 Minni, it does seem to come on a little strong. Could you turn it down to about 9:00, please? Carthage and Rome recently have declared a truce. Do realize that people choose the path they progress toward; most of those who own SET tube amps actually have both the financial ability and discerning listening ability to pound their ears into bloody submission. They don't. Some might like wine and cheese every night, some like to sip a good port, but most all love the sound they can reproduce with THEIR Klipsch and THEIR tube amps. I like the fact I can listen to "1812" with St. Louis Symphony members, and they ask to come back for more listening sessions, with tube systems that can be enjoyed for hours on end at lower volumes than you desire. After all, I already have someone sitting in my lap snoozing with a full diaper, and he would NOT be happy at the 12 minute mark to be startled by cannon fire. It's time to throw on "Carmen," I think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrMcGoo Posted December 28, 2003 Share Posted December 28, 2003 The basic premises in the first post in this thread were that the Telarc 1812 SACD is excellent and that SET amps cannot faithfully reproduce the cannon shots on the 1812 SACD. I did not see any direct contradiction of either premise. I have never heard a SET amp try to reproduce the full sound of the cannon shots. I can only immagine a 3.5 watt amp trying to do this. I suspect that the "soft" clipping of the SET amp must sound like electronic flatulence. There is a sound engineer on another forum that uses Voice of the Theater Altec horns to mix movie sound tracks. He states that he uses 60 watt tube amps for the bass drivers with active crossovers. His view is that low watt tube amps cannot faithfully reproduce bass sounds, hence the 60 watts for the bass drivers. He also states that SET amps sound good, but are not sufficiently accurate for his work. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minn_male42 Posted December 28, 2003 Author Share Posted December 28, 2003 dave, i simply stated a fact.... this is an awesome sacd and a SET amp cannot adequately reproduce the sound from this disc.... one thing that i left out.... i had at one time seriously considered purchasing a SET amp because of the comments on this forum..... i apologize if you feel threatened by this discussion..... i agree that everyone here has made a choice and probably some of them could afford a million watts if they wanted too... totally unrelated to the discussion at hand.... but thanks for your input.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3dzapper Posted December 28, 2003 Share Posted December 28, 2003 "I suspect that the "soft" clipping of the SET amp must sound like electronic flatulence." LMFAO!!!!!!!!!!!! I have the Tel-ark 1812 on an LP I use it not so much for volume but for cartridge tracking ability and feedback to the turntable. If a cart can track the cannons and the vibrations from the Khorns don't send the arm sailing across the record. Success! I'll have to get the CD(or DVD?) though. It sounds like fun! Rick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minn_male42 Posted December 28, 2003 Author Share Posted December 28, 2003 rick, i have several lp's and one cd of the 1812 overture..... not even close in sound quality, detail, and of course dynamics of this SACD version..... you're going to have to get an SACD player... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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