Deang Posted January 17, 2004 Share Posted January 17, 2004 ...and you are going to buy a sub. I want to know what you would buy and why. My son Austin is shopping, and I don't know about anything that has more than two speakers. Thanks for your help! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEAR Posted January 17, 2004 Share Posted January 17, 2004 SVS PB2-Plus would be my first choice,second I would look at a Klipsch RSW15. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norcuron Posted January 17, 2004 Share Posted January 17, 2004 I agree with TheEAR. I was going to buy a B4+ but decided a PB2+ should work just fine. $1199 + 99 shipping. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kev313 Posted January 17, 2004 Share Posted January 17, 2004 Dean - you're such a 2 channel snob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubai2000 Posted January 17, 2004 Share Posted January 17, 2004 Depending on the size of the room a PB2-ISD might do the job, too...and it will blend nicely with the Heritage line.... Wolfram Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteelerFan Posted January 17, 2004 Share Posted January 17, 2004 ---------------- On 1/17/2004 8:58:13 AM TheEAR wrote: SVS PB2-Plus would be my first choice,second I would look at a Klipsch RSW15. ---------------- Ditto. The RSW-15 will be more expensive unless you go unauthorized. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted January 18, 2004 Author Share Posted January 18, 2004 How do you beat two of these for less than $1500? http://www.partsexpress.com/pdf/295-420dumax.pdf http://www.partsexpress.com/pdf/300-808.pdf http://www.partsexpress.com/pdf/300-808response.pdf In kit form, which you can put together in less than an hour -- you can get one of these for $688 and free shipping. Two of them puts you at less than $1400. http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&User_ID=17751139&St=1345&St2=36638709&St3=46107734&DS_ID=3&Product_ID=167009&DID=7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JewishAMerPrince Posted January 18, 2004 Share Posted January 18, 2004 He Dean, Superficially, it would seem be hard to beat that price. The real question though becomes: How well does it really perform? #1-From the looks of the components in the amp, the capacitors in the power supply look kinda puny. This would severely limit the dynamic capability of the amp. That amp is rated at MAX output not it's continuous power, I wouldn't plan on seeing more that 150-200 watts RMS out of the thing. It is also a class G amp, and you will have to deal with a significant level of switching distortion from it. #2-Is the box port loaded or sealed? If sealed, is there sufficient power in that amp to drive a 15" driver to reference levels at low distortion in your room? If the enclosure is ported, is the port specifically designed for that driver? If not you will have very uneven frequency response around the resonant frequency of the driver. Is the port a horn design or just a hole in the back of the enclosure? Unless the port is a carefully designed horn you may have to deal with the physical realities of what is called "port huff". Kits are a good thing when all the components are designed to work in concert, not just thrown together from a list of available generic parts bin items ah-la "Parts Express". Jerry Rappaport Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted January 18, 2004 Author Share Posted January 18, 2004 This kit was designed as a "system". Things were calculated out to work together. BASH and Class G may work differently, but the end result appears to be same. I don't think a "1000 watts" of Class G is any different than a "1000 watts" of B.A.S.H. As an aside, the plate amp from Parts Express looks considerably bigger and heavier than the B.A.S.H. amp SVS uses. "Class G operation involves changing the power supply voltage from a lower level to a higher level when larger output swings are required. There have been several ways to do this. The simplest involves a single class AB output stage that is connected to two power supply rails by a diode, or a transistor switch. The design is such that for most musical program material, the output stage is connected to the lower supply voltage, and automatically switches to the higher rails for large signal peaks. Another approach uses two class AB output stages, each connected to a different power supply voltage, with the magnitude of the input signal determining the signal path. Using two power supplies improves efficiency enough to allow significantly more power for a given size and weight. Class G is becoming common for pro audio designs. Class H operation takes the class G design one step further and actually modulates the higher power supply voltage by the input signal. This allows the power supply to track the audio input and provide just enough voltage for optimum operation of the output devices. The efficiency of class H is comparable to class G designs." "BASH borrows some elements from digital amplifiers in order to deliver high gain with relatively low heat. This hybrid design allows BASH amplifiers to pump out large amounts of power without the added weight of heat-sinks common to purely analog amps...BASH amps use a discrete MOSFET (Metal Oxide Semiconductor Field Effect Transistor), a dual rail power supply and high current power capacity for low impedance/high peak load situations. As you can see from this diagram, the power amplifier passes the input signal through to the BASH audio processor, which generates what's called a gate pulse for the BASH converter. The BASH audio processor is, in essence, the "borrowed" part from Class D pulse width modulation (PWM) digital amplifiers...The BASH converter in turn converts this gate pulse into a power signal that feeds the power amplifier's main supply rails. The voltage gain that was added by the BASH converter is regulated such that the voltage supplied to the Type A/B power amplifier is just above its output. This technique also makes BASH amplifiers more power-efficient than traditional Class A/B analog amplifiers. This design, which uses a kind of signal feedback loop, could introduce temporal latency to audio playback, but according to BASH, the conversion process that occurs in the BASH processor and converter are sufficiently fast so as to avoid any perceived temporal latency..." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEAR Posted January 18, 2004 Share Posted January 18, 2004 DeanG, Its a potent woofer in a very small sealed(from the looks of it)cabinet,a SVS PB2-Plus will outperform this thing with total ease down low.And the Plus costs $1199. Even a sealed Tumult powered by twice the wattage will faill to match a PB2-Plus down low.And this "Titanic" is far from a Tumult/1600W amp combo. If you know better than just get two lesser subs,I would get a single better one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JewishAMerPrince Posted January 18, 2004 Share Posted January 18, 2004 Dean A Chevrolet Caprice is bigger and heavier than a Porsche 911. Which is more powerful? Looks can be deceiving in amplifiers, however looking at the 900 watt RMS B.A.S.H. amp on the back of my PB2+ there is nothing small about it at all. I reiterate what I said before, the amp in that kit is rated 1000w peak, but probably only delivers 100-150 watts RMS. We will never know for sure because the manufacturer does not chose to disclose what the continuous (RMS) power rating is, and I wonder why?? Audiophile equipment by standards set by many organizations are always rated in Continuous (RMS) not Peak (MAX) power. SVS amps are audiophile grade they and BASH do publish the continuous (RMS) power ratings of their amps, so you do know what you are getting. I would follow EAR's suggestion. Stick with a known, (and celebrated I may add) product. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEAR Posted January 18, 2004 Share Posted January 18, 2004 JewishAmeriPrince, I agree the power transformer and caps look puny,but remember these amps are efficient at 90%,you should see a Sunfire amp looks like it can deliver 50-100,but in fact it can deliver much much more. And I simply doubt these Parts Express subs deliver the BIG show because the cabinets are small and sealed,and even a sealed Tumult driven by a true 1KW RMS amp delivers "only" very good performance considering the potency of the woofer and amp. A SVS PB2-Plus will trounce these PartsExpress me too subs down low,around 50Hz two such subs will outblast a single PB2-Plus. But as I said a real subwoofer must be measured by its deep bass performance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JewishAMerPrince Posted January 18, 2004 Share Posted January 18, 2004 ---------------- On 1/18/2004 8:52:24 PM TheEAR wrote: JewishAmeriPrince, I agree the power transformer and caps look puny,but remember these amps are efficient at 90%,you should see a Sunfire amp looks like it can deliver 50-100,but in fact it can deliver much much more. And I simply doubt these Parts Express subs deliver the BIG show because the cabinets are small and sealed,and even a sealed Tumult driven by a true 1KW RMS amp delivers "only" very good performance considering the potency of the woofer and amp. A SVS PB2-Plus will trounce these PartsExpress me too subs down low,around 50Hz two such subs will outblast a single PB2-Plus. But as I said a real subwoofer must be measured by its deep bass performance. ---------------- EAR Being efficient at 90% only means that they deliver 90% of the current they eat while turning 10% into heat. Power consumption figures are not given in the spec sheet, nor are RMS values, only MAX output. My point is that we have no way knowing what this amp can really deliver; and the size of the PS caps says: not very much. As far as the performance of the assembled sub goes, once again who knows? And, what happens if there is a problem with the "Parts Bin" sub? I'm sure you won't have a Ron S or a Tom V standing by to find a solution. That alone makes the entire SVS line worth the price of admission. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted January 18, 2004 Author Share Posted January 18, 2004 There is NO real world difference between a 1000 watt BASH amp and the Parts Express amp. All of these "1000 watt" amps put out about 250 continuous -- that's common knowledge. Incidently, the Parts Express sub is ported. Why pay for someone else's labor and markup? SVS is a heck of a deal, but I think this might be a better one. Personally, I still like the cylinders, and if it was my money, I would go for the PC-Ultra. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fabulousfrankie Posted January 19, 2004 Share Posted January 19, 2004 What ever you do I recommend putting a small part of that budget towards an eq like the $120 BFD. No matter how good your sub is, your room can turn it into a one not boom machine. What about having something built for you from a place like www.acoustic-visions.com. Something like dual Stryke AV12's, having the enclosure built, PR or vents, and amplifier should come within budget and it can be finished to your likings. You can see their choice of standard laminates: http://acoustic-visions.com/~acoustic/products/subwoofers/enclosures/painting.shtml Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
purdue2k2 Posted January 19, 2004 Share Posted January 19, 2004 I got my Sunfire True Signature for close to $1500 (unauthorized online dealer of course). If you are concerned at all with size it's worth checking out. It sounds amazing and it's only 13" x 13" x 13". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrMcGoo Posted January 19, 2004 Share Posted January 19, 2004 The BASH amp in the RSW-15 puts out 650 watts RMS continuous and 2,400 watts peak. The motor structure weighs 34 pounds with the total sub weighing 85 pounds out of the box. It is a very "musical" sub that still has very good output down to 19 Hz, although it is best down to 30 Hz. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jabez Scratch Posted January 19, 2004 Share Posted January 19, 2004 At the $1,500 price point, I'd think that you'd want to consider/demo the new Paradigm Seismic 12 subs -- early reports are very positive. Also, the Bob Carver stuff is great from what I hear and you can't go wrong with SVS or Velodyne. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael hurd Posted January 19, 2004 Share Posted January 19, 2004 If your son has some carpentry skills, you can't beat DIY. Adire's tempest, the stryke av12/15 and the tumult are all great performers. Add a powerful amplifier, build an enclosure to your liking, drop in the woofer, add a electronic crossover, a little tuning and you are set. Also the dayton titatnic 15" looks to be a good deal as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndyKlipschFan Posted January 23, 2004 Share Posted January 23, 2004 Dean G Something said for making and learning too. My father and I as a kid made a heathkit tube amp. Wish I still had it. It was fun... and I learned a little about soldering and design work. If he buys one and puts it together from parts express, he will also have something else of equal value, money left over to buy music and movies with. Parts express is a pretty good company for the DIY'r too I heard these or something like them at the Lima, OH, Midwest Audiofest last year. They sounded great IMO. They are not a muddy "Boom Box" effect, but fairly clean at low to mid loud volumes. While it may not go loud enough to make your ears bleed, they are fine I assure you. Besides YOU, as parents, might not want heart pounding 5000 watt monsters anyhow with his music pounding in your house...LOL.. Just a thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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