bacevedo Posted June 19, 2001 Share Posted June 19, 2001 I have a question on setting my sub level (KSW 12) with the AVIA DVD and a Radio Shack SPL Meter (Analog). I have a Denon AVR 3801, RB5's for the front, RC3 for the center, and RCW3 for the rears. With the AVIA DVD, it says to set the level of the Sub to the same level as the other speakers. I am setting my other speakers to 75db (at a given volume position on my receiver). When I set my sub to this, it seems very weak on music and movies. Is this the correct setting? Am I just used to having my sub set too high that everything seems too weak? I have read that the RS meter is not accurate with the LFE track because it's frequency response is not correct. It was said to adjust the output by 3 or 4 db. Does this mean I should set the sub to 78 or 79 db? This is where it sounds the best to me, but sometimes on movies the bass is very, very loud! This may be correct, but I was just wondering. So, to all the guys here, what do you do? Do you just set you sub up by ear on music, or do you use the test tones and an SPL meter - if so what settings do you use? ------------------ Thanks, Bryan "... But Honey - I promise this is the last thing I will have to buy for the Home Theater" Mistubishi 60" RPTV (VS60603) Denon AVR 3801 RCVR Denon DVM 1800 DVD JVC 3600U SVHS VCR RCA DirecTV Klipsch RB5 - L&R Klipsch RC3 - Center Klipsch RCW3 - In-wall surrounds Klipsch KSW12 - Sub Monster Power Conditioner Radio Shack Gold Series Interconnects Radio Shack 12 AWG Mega Cable Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
t-man Posted June 19, 2001 Share Posted June 19, 2001 bacevedo, I don't have any test discs, but when I use the test tones on my Denon, I can set all the speakers to about 75 db with my RS meter, except the sub. I can barely hear it at all at this level, and it pegs the meter when I finally can hear it. This annoys me, b/c there is NO WAY that the sub should be set that low. Perhaps my test tones are messed up on the Denon, and I need a AVIA or Video Essentials disc to do this properly. I also use "C" weighting, and slow response. T-man ------------------ KG 5.5 (mains) KG 2.2v (center) KG 1 (rears) KSW-12 (sub) Denon AVR 681/1601 Toshiba SD-3109 DVD Kenwood LVD700 LD Sony CD changer Sony 27" Trinitron Sony PLX I Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bacevedo Posted June 19, 2001 Author Share Posted June 19, 2001 T-man - that is the same problem I have. Even when I use the tones on the DVD or the receiver. I have read in a few places that setting it to the same level is only valid if you use an RTA, otherwise, there is some correction that you need to make (add 3 or 4 db). That is why I am not clear, because setting like the AVIA disc says produces very little bass. When I adjust the bass by ear, it is also pegging my SPL meter. I guess I am not alone in this! I also use C-weighting and slow response. ------------------ Thanks, Bryan "... But Honey - I promise this is the last thing I will have to buy for the Home Theater" Mistubishi 60" RPTV (VS60603) Denon AVR 3801 RCVR Denon DVM 1800 DVD JVC 3600U SVHS VCR RCA DirecTV Klipsch RB5 - L&R Klipsch RC3 - Center Klipsch RCW3 - In-wall surrounds Klipsch KSW12 - Sub Monster Power Conditioner Radio Shack Gold Series Interconnects Radio Shack 12 AWG Mega Cable Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
t-man Posted June 20, 2001 Share Posted June 20, 2001 Yea, I wish somebody could clear this up for us. Are we doing something wrong? I just did another measure, and according to my "ear" and taste, the sub is really close to 90 db on my RS meter, and 75 on the remaining speakers. The sub signal does not "sound louder" with the Denon test tones at these levels. What gives? T-man ------------------ KG 5.5 (mains) KG 2.2v (center) KG 1 (rears) KSW-12 (sub) Denon AVR 681/1601 Toshiba SD-3109 DVD Kenwood LVD700 LD Sony CD changer Sony 27" Trinitron Sony PLX I Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Earle Decker Posted June 20, 2001 Share Posted June 20, 2001 Have you guys done a slow frequency sweep from say 20-80hz? You may have a big room induced peak somewhere and this will give you fits trying to balance everything out. When you are balancing the subs output you end up setting its level for the peak and not the overall level. I use VE and hae my subs set to about79-80db per the RS spl meter. This works great for HT and I adjust for music from there by ear. Useally ends up about 2db lower. ------------------ Reciever: Denon AVR3200 Speakers: Klipsch KG4.2's/KG2.2v/KSB 3.1's/SVS 20-39's Amps: B&K Ref 4022(mains)/Fidek 600 watt(subs) DVD: Toshiba 3109 Laser Disc: Pioneer CLD-1090 TV: Sony 32" monitor 2 pair of Aura Bass Shakers Millennium 2.4.6 DTS Decoder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GWklipsch Posted June 20, 2001 Share Posted June 20, 2001 T-man & bacevedo, Give this a try. Set up your system as you did with the R/S meter "C" weighting, and slow response. to 75db including the subwoofer.. Now don't touch the volume leave it right were it is, at 75db and put a good slam bang DVD on. I think you will find it is not weak in fact it will sound very loud with great bass.. Most people dont run there home H/T at the reference level of 75db for movies. let me know how you make out.. Also with VIDEO ESSENTIALS or AVIA the white noise to the subwoofwr is actually down by -10db as it should be for DTS 5.1 that's just the standard.George PS, I too would like to hear what other people think about this subject. Also what about setting up a sub for people with out 5.1 who just use there systems for music. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Domain Posted June 20, 2001 Share Posted June 20, 2001 The KSW revisited You might check out the following link: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Hollow/3401/PCI.html I too have battled with this issue, but after I tweaking, and tweaking, and adjusting, and tweaking...and well you get the point, I found the method in the above link gives the best results. I made one minor change to the above method however... I set my Denon's sub level to -12 db, and used the level on the KSW instead. The sub seems to produce a "different" sound when done in this fashion, however your mileage may vary. Domain I can never get the Smilies right...bah This message has been edited by Domain on 06-20-2001 at 10:04 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seb Posted June 20, 2001 Share Posted June 20, 2001 just do the beginning adjustments with the meter, but then adjust by ear. after all, you're not going to listen to your setup via the RS meter, but via your ears and brain. so just set the sub where you like it. i have it set up very high because I like BASS!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GWklipsch Posted June 20, 2001 Share Posted June 20, 2001 Domain, Thanks for the url. I checked it out and will give it a try on my system tomorrow.I have not visited it before.George Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T2K Posted June 21, 2001 Share Posted June 21, 2001 Seb,congratulations on giving the best possible answer to the submitted question(IMO). Keith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T2K Posted June 21, 2001 Share Posted June 21, 2001 I'm about to try out a new recipe.Problem is the recipe calls for two tablespoons of salt.With that much salt the dish is just too dad-burn salty for my taste.Should I use the amount of salt the recipe calls for,and hate every bite,or should I just season to taste and ENJOY every bite? Keith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Garrison Posted June 21, 2001 Share Posted June 21, 2001 Keith, Keith keith keith. This is the sort of thing that gives foodiophiles such a bad rep. The idea here is to RECREATE the ORIGINAL INTENT of the CHEF. It is NOT to simply start altering the chef's work willy nilly according to your own individual tastes and whims. If you use less than the two tablespoons of salt as recommended by the chef, you may be creating a pile of food that can be eaten, but you will NOT be creating a high fidelity reproduction of the original gastronomical event. I assume, of course, that you are following accepted standard procedures in selecting the proper base material for the serving platform and platter / mouth translocation elements. ALso, please keep in mind that it has demonstrated that changing the power cords used to connect the oven or stove to the central distribution facility can have a significant impact on the overall tonal flavor of the resulting meal. I, personally, have found that if the your oven tends to accentuate the "saltiness" of most cuisine, a simple change to a double shielded, 20 amp cord with hospital grade connectors can often eliminate the apparent excessive salinity - provided, of course, that the production environment is NOT using counterclockwise wound heating elements. Your fellow connoisseur of fine gourmet dining, Ray ------------------ Music is art Audio is engineering Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speedbump Posted June 21, 2001 Share Posted June 21, 2001 Ray, Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha........(deep breath) Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha I'm gonna have to try the "hospital grade connectors" and see if they help. Of course, I have been turning my dryer on with a screwdriver shorted across the switch for a month now...I must prioritize. Speed ------------------ Klipsch Chorus I Fronts Klipsch KLF-C7 Center Klipsch Heresy I Surrounds Mitsubishi WS-55807 55" HDTV Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bacevedo Posted June 21, 2001 Author Share Posted June 21, 2001 Thanks for all of the replies and the humor. Yes, I know that in the end I will tweak it by ear, I was just trying to find a starting point, and wondering why my ear and tastes were so much different than what all of the "professionals" said to do. I have seen that geocities link before (good ol' Phil - he loves his JBL's and Yamaha equipment!). I especially like his comparison of all the receivers and their power ratings from Sound & Vision. It looks like my Denon 3801 is not a limp puppy like so many people thought after all! Also, for you gourmet people - if you don't have the "golden tongue" then you won't know how it really tastes, and don't really know what to taste for. If you think that it tastes good with more salt, then obviously you have been eating inferior food, and just can't appreciate the better tasting foods. Earle, I bet that what you are saying is the reason that most of us have this problem. It makes the most sense to me, and that is why true calibration would require an RTA. Domain - do you have the 3300? I know on my 3801, I set my sub level to -2, and use the sub to compensate. I adjusted to this based on Sound & Visions review. They said that at 0, with the worst case signals, the sub out had 1.9% distortion, and that setting it to -2 would virtually ensure that you never overdrove the output. I bet setting your level to -12 has 0 distortion and would make your sub sound better. ------------------ Thanks, Bryan "... But Honey - I promise this is the last thing I will have to buy for the Home Theater" Mistubishi 60" RPTV (VS60603) Denon AVR 3801 RCVR Denon DVM 1800 DVD JVC 3600U SVHS VCR RCA DirecTV Klipsch RB5 - L&R Klipsch RC3 - Center Klipsch RCW3 - In-wall surrounds Klipsch KSW12 - Sub Monster Power Conditioner Radio Shack Gold Series Interconnects Radio Shack 12 AWG Mega Cable Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T2K Posted June 21, 2001 Share Posted June 21, 2001 Why do I want to grill some salmon all of a sudden? Keith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Earle Decker Posted June 21, 2001 Share Posted June 21, 2001 I havent used a RTA in my room just the RS SPL meter and a BFD to smooth out any big room induced peaks. The BFD is a great unit for $150. It can be a ***** to find at times though. There is a fairly big learning curve when first using it, but after you get used to it, it not too bad. The Home theater talk website has a good basic FAQ section on it. Using it has made my HT sound immeasurably better. Just remember to cut peaks and dont try to increase nulls, most nulls are room induced and are basicly black holes that will eat up your amps headroom. Major nulls are usally only fixed by moving the subs location. Hope this helps Earle ------------------ Reciever: Denon AVR3200 Speakers: Klipsch KG4.2's/KG2.2v/KSB 3.1's/SVS 20-39's Amps: B&K Ref 4022(mains)/Fidek 600 watt(subs) DVD: Toshiba 3109 Laser Disc: Pioneer CLD-1090 TV: Sony 32" monitor 2 pair of Aura Bass Shakers Millennium 2.4.6 DTS Decoder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLOOMIS914 Posted June 21, 2001 Share Posted June 21, 2001 Right on Seb and Keith......Just add sub to taste once your in the ballpark of 75dB with RS spl meter. BTW Ray, everyone knows that the quality/taste of the food improves dramatically when using fine Cutlery, Flatware and China.......For my wife and I we get the best results with Wusthof Trident, Yamazaki and Lenox. But this is more along the lines of the speaker wire debate. Sorry for straying off course. ------------------ My main Klipsch system: KLF-30's Bi-wired KLF-C7 KSP-S6's KSW-15 Front Sub KSW-100 Rear Sub Monster cable 14 gauge in-wall cable Niles wall plates Marantz SR-8000 Toshiba SD-4205 5 DVD changer Pioneer PDF-1007 301-CD changer Mitsubishi 35" Mitsubishi VCR Pioneer VSX-608 Multi-room amp for Outdoor deck Polk All-weather AW2's deck speakers Niles in-wall volume controls Fridge full of beer and plenty of Don Julio, Jagermeister and Jim Beam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boa12 Posted June 21, 2001 Share Posted June 21, 2001 beware the avia guide to HT disk for sub set-up. unless they corrected it in a newer version. but mine doesn't have the sub output in it's LFE channel. so the only way to get that is to set the fronts small which may or may not give accurate settings (i just have the sub connected line level to the sub out). so if i ever get my sub back from the shop i won't be using the avia for level settings. good for video calibration though. will use the receiver for the tones w/ the new shack meter. but i'm sure i'll spice that sub up another 5-6db. will also give that turning down that receiver sub level by 10db or so & using the sub's output control a try. see if that makes a dif for the marantz. ------------------ Klipsch KLF 30 (front), KLF C-7, Cornwall I (rear) Velodyne HGS-18 sub woofer Monsterbass 400 sub interconnects & Monster CX-2 biwire & Z-12 cable Marantz SR-8000 receiver Sony DVP-C650D cd/dvd player Sony Trinitron 27" stereo tv Toshiba hi-fi stereo vcr Technics dual cassette deck Scientific Atlanta Explorer 2000 digital cable box Boa's Listenin Lounge: Klipsch RF-3 (front), RC-3, cheap little Technics (rear) Monster MCX Biwires Sony STR-DE935 a/v receiver Kenwood KR-9600 AM/FM stereo receiver (vintage 1975) Russound AB-2 receiver switch to RF-3 Teac PD-D1200 5-disk cd changer Technics SL-1950 turntable/AT LS500 cartridge Sega Genesis game player Sub: None yet rock on! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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