CO1 Posted February 7, 2004 Share Posted February 7, 2004 I'm looking for a pic of a black lacquer Klipschorn because I have never seen one before and would like to in order to help decide on which finish. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q-Man Posted February 7, 2004 Share Posted February 7, 2004 Not the best picture, its the one on the right. The one on the left is a Jensen Imperial that I built. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazman Posted February 7, 2004 Share Posted February 7, 2004 Qman, I've seen your artistic finish to Mike's LaScalas, and know you're an expert, but the Khorn you show appears to look more like my "flat black" Khorns. Is black "laquer" just a type of finish after painting black, or a one finish application product. What is the very deep, lusterous finish called that is found on some of the best grand pianos, and how difficult is it to apply successfully? Klipsch out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q-Man Posted February 7, 2004 Share Posted February 7, 2004 The black lacquer finish on the Klipschorn is from Klipsch, It's not my work. Black lacquer is just a two or three coat lacquer paint like you used to buy for automotive finishes. Klipsch does or did a semi gloss finish on the klipschorn and LaScala. You control the gloss effect by the quality of the lacquer thinner and by how much of it you mix with the black lacquer paint. You can make it look like the black piano finish that you speak of , but your woodwork would have to be flawless, gloss shows all. The Klipschorns look a little glossier then in this picture. My two mega pixil camera doesn't do a very good job with black. The Imperials in the picture are done in a black ash formica. I used formica because I built these with the staples and screws showing. I never heard these speakers and I built them because I read that they were better sounding then the Klipschorns. I had to find out what they sounded like. I didn't mush care what they looked like because I was just going to throw them out or give them away if I didn't like the sound. If I ever build another pair I will veneer and stain them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q-Man Posted February 7, 2004 Share Posted February 7, 2004 Even oiled walnut looks dull with my camera. The pictures that I took of Mike's LaScalas were with my 35mm camera and developed to a kodac(SP?) disc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garymd Posted February 7, 2004 Share Posted February 7, 2004 Klipsch mainly used a satin laquer spray which is what I have on my zebrawood cornwalls. Not extremely shiny but nice and smooth. You don't want to use oil on them either, just woodsoap which darkens them some and brings them back near their original finish. If the product code on the label has "SL" in it, it stands for satin laquer. Mine is "CZSL" which stands for "Cornwall Zebrawood Satin Laquer" as opposed to "CWO" which would be "Cornwall Walnut Oiled." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan Songer Posted February 7, 2004 Share Posted February 7, 2004 I'm not sure if it was a factory finish, but I saw a pair of Khorns in San Francisco in the late 1970's with a piano-quality finish--they looked just like a new Yamaha concert grand---FLAWLESS! I imagine the up-charge for this finish if it were indeed offered at the factory would have been at least 1.5 timnes the standard finish or MORE! In other words, if a pair of Khorns retailed for $2000, the piano finish ones were probably $3500 or more! I know that we have done pianos in our shop and the process takes DAYS with at least 10-15 coats of lacquer block sanded to 1000 grits between coats and then finished off with 2000 grit and THEN buffed with FOUR grades of polish! I think the last one we did we charged $4000!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLKlipscher Posted February 8, 2004 Share Posted February 8, 2004 Sorry, black heritage is repugnant Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CO1 Posted February 8, 2004 Author Share Posted February 8, 2004 Thanks guys. I'm looking to put together a Heritage 7.1 HT setup over the next couple of years for the house I'm building. The plan right now is to go with 2 Khorns as mains, a Belle or La Scala as a center and 4 Hersey's for side and rear surrounds all in black to match the black leather couchs and furniture. I'd also be interested in possible room dimensions to give me the best sound for the Khorns with a seating position about 12 ft from a 122-inch widescreen. Baring in mind that a 122-inch 16:9 widescreen is 106-inches wide and I want to sit 12 ft away what kind of room dimensions would I need to accommodate the Khorns? I know this is the 2 channel forum but you guys are the ones that seem to know the most about the Khorns. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j-malotky Posted February 8, 2004 Share Posted February 8, 2004 CO1 Your plan to build a Heritage HT is right on target. Your going to have one of the ultimate HT experiances because of your fore sight. To get the best sound from your Khorns designing a room for them is always the best idea. For a 12' sweet spot, plan on a front wall being 20-24' wide. What is your overall area to work with? I built a simular all Heritage HT 2 years ago designing the room to use my Khorns. If you need any help with your project you can always email or PM me. JM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CO1 Posted February 8, 2004 Author Share Posted February 8, 2004 The basement will be 28x40 so anything within that is doable. I will also require some space behind the main seating area for a stand up bar in addition to a wet bar behind that so at least another 10ft making the length a minimum of 22ft. I'm calculating that with a 10ft ceiling keeping in mind that you said I need a width of 20-24ft for my viewing distance and I require a minimum of 22ft for the length I end up with a dimension of 22.8 x 27.8 x 10 WxLxH. Appreciate any suggestions you have on my dimensions and if you have any pics I would love to see them. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrot Posted February 8, 2004 Share Posted February 8, 2004 Q-Man, How did you like your homemade Imperials? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j-malotky Posted February 8, 2004 Share Posted February 8, 2004 CO1 You are going to have one Primo Heritage HT when you move into your new house. You have a lot to work with in your new basement, very nice indeed. You have email. JM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q-Man Posted February 8, 2004 Share Posted February 8, 2004 Paul, That is a difficult question to answer, because the Imperial is loaded with all Klipsch drivers, horns and the AL-3 network. I did this because I wanted it to match the Klipschorn so I could compare just the difference in the sound of the two bass horn designs. Ones first listening experience is on the Imperials side of the fence, because the bass just pounds you and makes the Klipschorn sound more like a bookshelf speaker. Then there was the cool factor, because when you near the speaker you can feel how the back loaded bass horn works. The preasurized waves from the back of the woofer are channeled to exit all around the tweeter and midrange horn. I think this is one reason that it is said the the Imperial is the one bass horn that got it right. It is a nice blend of the drivers. When you stand in front of or to the side of the speaker it can be like standing in front of a gentle blowing fan. After further listening the Klipschorn was sounding better in the upper bass to low midrange area. My guess at the time was that the Klipschorn sounded cleaner between 150 to 400Hz. and that the Imperial was sounding better above and below those frequencies. But louder almost always fools you into thinking that it is better. The day that I took the picture of the Imperial and Klipschorn side by side was the day that I measured the frequency responce of both of them one at a time from the same corner. My ears wern't that far off from my first comparison. The Imperial is 6db louder from 20 to 30Hz , 2db louder from 30 to 40Hz. This seems like a good thing. The Impreial is 3 db louder at 50Hz, Then from 100 to 160Hz the Klipschorn is 6db louder, and 3db louder from 160 to 250hz. This was where some of us were saying that we liked the sound of the Klipschorn in the earlier listening comparisons. Now the Imperial takes over again from 250 to 400Hz by a margin of 3db. This should be of no surprise, because we know that the Klipsh bass horn has a hard time reaching 400Hz. The Klipschorn has 6db over the Imperial at 500Hz. Above that they are of cource equal. This makes me think that the K33 woofer isn't the right woofer for the Imperial back loaded bass horn. I have to believe that the Imperial woofer had a flatter responce in this horn. This means that I really need to find a woofer more like the one this horn was designed for in order to truly judge the sound of the Imperial. I will get back to this one of these days, because the bass horn does show a lot of potential. It is clean and detailed sounding and can be crossed over at 600 to 800 Hz. to the midrange. I also need to try it with one of my Altec 500 and 800Hz networks and drivers. For now I'm using the Imperials as one pair of rear surrounds along with a pair of LaScalas. An attempt to get the best of the two speakers. The Imperials are great in the rear for those action movies, SACD's, and DVD-Audio disc. You know when the bass is being sent to them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark1101 Posted February 8, 2004 Share Posted February 8, 2004 A comment on the Black. I have black LaScalas all original. It seems to me that the black Laquer finish does not hold up as well as a wood veneer finish. After all it is just paint. My corns and heresys can be touched up easily because they are veneers. I have a couple of places where the paint came off on the Las. Just little spots here and there. But it really ruins the finish because you can not touch them up easily without it showing up. I love my Las but I wasn't searching for a black pair. They just came up in my area so I got them. I know the black laquer can look good when new, but I recommend a wood veneer finish instead for longevity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CO1 Posted February 8, 2004 Author Share Posted February 8, 2004 Funny you should mention that because black La Scalas could be in my near future. I'd prefer Khorns but I'm not one to pass up a good opportunity. I'm not really too worried because I may end up refinishing all the speakers so they match. Hey at least when you're sanding them you don't have to worry about going through the veneer. I'f I do end up with the La Scalas I will get a third for the center to go with the 4 herseys surrounds. Only problem is that I have never heard a La Scala. I take comfort in that people say they sound similar to a Khorn with less reach down low. I don't like buying with out hearing but the geography alone will save me a fair chunk on shipping. I don't really know if I want to trade in my dreams of a set of Khorns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark1101 Posted February 8, 2004 Share Posted February 8, 2004 Geography is exactly why I got the pair I did (and price). Because of their size, they aren't livingroom speakers anyhow in my situation. So I didn't need a pristine pair. Still these Las are mint, no knicks at all and sharp corners. Just tiny flakes of paint coming off in a couple of places. It looks like they dried out a bit on top over the years. I would love Khorns, and would buy them in a minute if I had the right room. I have moved numerous times and never really had the perfect room. On the other hand, the Las are mobile and can be placed anywhere. A big advantage. They also have the same drivers, just a compromised bass horn. I recommend looking into Las if the room isn't just right. They are readily available at decent prices, nice or ugly (for the refinishing guy). Good Luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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