scrambler400 Posted February 23, 2004 Share Posted February 23, 2004 I have been looking at getting a new integrated amp for my SACD setup. I have been looking at many mid level integrateds like the Jolida products. Seems like none of the higher end integrated have tone controls on them. Had anybody run into this before. I know I could get a graphic EQ, but it doesn't look like anybody makes like high quality EQ's and I wouldn't want it to screw up my sound quality. Musical Fidelity makes something called the X-Tone, but they are only in europe and are hard to come by. Any suggestions? JML Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted February 23, 2004 Share Posted February 23, 2004 Give up tone controls? I did about 25 years ago with all my non-vintage gear and dont miss them a bit. Others cry foul here. As always, many opinions, tastes, and needs. I have only volume and source selection remaing on all my preamps. I have tone controls on vintage integrateds but rarely use them. Or you can get a great vintage tube integrated that might impress you more than Jolida et al. I still prefer the EICO HF-81. Others love Scott and Fisher. There are great examples of each and good sound can be had on the relative cheap. There are some other more obscure vintage integrated offerings that are good as well. I almost bought a vintage BELL amp but the price got too high. It had VERY nice iron. Pilot is one to consider too. Still, if you want a modern tube integrated, dont worry about the loss of tone controls. kh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scrambler400 Posted February 23, 2004 Author Share Posted February 23, 2004 I have found that with my previous setups I used the tone controls to turn up the bass just slightly, and would like to have that option again. However I would be hesitant to slap say an audiosource graphic eq between my source component and my amp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark1101 Posted February 23, 2004 Share Posted February 23, 2004 And I sort of represent the other end of the spectrum. I'm a distortion freak . You can see the DBX EQs I use. With careful and minimal adjustments they can make a big difference. I know they are pro units but I do not have audible distortion. The trick is using them correctly. My Scott integrateds have tone controls that I leave flat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg928gts Posted February 24, 2004 Share Posted February 24, 2004 Scrambler, I understand completely. I do the same thing, turn the bass up slightly. On my main system, I have no tone controls and it took some getting used to. It's a much thinner sound than I'm used to partly because of the low powered amp that I'm using. I've learned to love midrange, but yearn for more bottom end. I'm going through an elaborate biamp setup in order to be able to boost the bottom. Elaborate because I'm doing it with a minimilistic approach, no electronic crossover, and as few components in line as possible. In system #2, I use a Scott 299A integrated with tone controls, and I enjoy using the bass control with very good sound quality. You should consider a rebuilt Scott unit, you get a tube pre, a tube amp, tone controls, phono section, and great sound all in one chassis. Greg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DTLongo Posted February 24, 2004 Share Posted February 24, 2004 I want to have the CHOICE of having tone controls or not. Ergo, I am having my just-ordered Jolida JD102B tube amp modded by the factory to allow use of an outboard equalizer. As I understand it, they rewire the aux input to permit this leaving me three rather than four source inputs, which is enough for how I plan to use the amp - straight stereo with Khorns and with tuner and CD/DVD-audio inputs. It could very well be that, as was the case with GaryMD's little Fisher amp that he demo'd here in January, the little Jolida will push so much more rich bass through my Khorns than my present SS amp that bass tone control will be superfluous. But I still want the choice. CD recording quality varies widely, as we all know. There will be times when one wants to back down the treble some. Or to boost bass, especially at lower volumes. Likewise, since I already have it, I plan to continue my Velodyne S1500 subwoofer in the setup. With the new tube amp I might want to use the sub rarely, but there still may be times when I do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunnysal Posted February 24, 2004 Share Posted February 24, 2004 I need tone controls, an refuse to do without them. like anything in audio, some tone circuits are well designed and use quality components and others do not. I am partial to the tone controls on the old marantz or HK citation preamps for example, made using resistor ladders. the McIntosh implementation is nice as well, old models as well as new. I agree the optimum is to be able to switch the controls out of the signal path when you do not want them. Few modern components these days have tone controls, they remain common mostly on mid-fi equipment...shame that... recent style trends favor minimalist/purist dogma...though everyone swaps out tubes and cables, and even amps, like there is no tomorrow to get a tone they like, few risk equipment with well implemented tone circuits... regards, tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted February 24, 2004 Share Posted February 24, 2004 The answer for me is simple. I take the system sans tone, balance, or any controls besides attenuation, and then get my room and system set up around this as the base parameter. And I have yet to personally hear a preamp with tone controls that I think is more open and transparent as one without. Still, I have loved some vintate gear despite the tone controls, but almost NEVER use them. Minimalism isnt dogma. I have tended to like gear with LESS and not more, especially with switching, filters, pots, etc. When I had more mediocre gear and was younger, I used to love cranking the treble to 2 O'clock, the bass to 3 O'Clock, and letting her rip. But as the gear got better and I wanted it to sound LESS like there was anything there, things started to disappear. First tone controls. Then extra switching and filters. Finally, something I thought I would never do without, a BALANCE. The last thing to go was the regular carbon volume pot as moving to a stepped attenuator with quality resistors brought the goal one step closer. Still, it's all subjective prattle. As Tony stated, having the flexibility is often a nice and needed thing to some as they use them per recording. The Mono switch is nice for vintage vinyl. But the hackney cliche of looking through the glass window and seeing layers of dirt removed corresponded to removing switching, pots, and controls via my preamp. I ultimately think the preamp is what really makes or breaks the system. IF running SET especially, a preamp with a lot of THERE there takes away from what makes these amplifiers special to begin with. On the other hand, I am sitting here typing listening to an integrated tube amp with tone controls and 40 yr old pots and smiling as I go. Pick your aural drug of choice.... kh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klipsch RF7 Posted February 24, 2004 Share Posted February 24, 2004 ALright, so since Im going with Dynaco mark III mono amps, I should forego tone controls on my preamp? Im looking at these nice Audio experience preamps that are made in Hong Kong by Hand. They are priced very nicely and will get to me in 2 weeks if i order one. Here is the preamp that im thinking of purchasing. http://cgi.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cl.pl?preatube&1082620238 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBrennan Posted February 24, 2004 Share Posted February 24, 2004 I gotta have tone controls. My Heresys need a little bass boost and I'm not free to place them for the best bass, they're going in the bookshelves and that's that. So I give 'em a little boost. I understand Kelly's point about getting a more transparent sound sans controls but sometimes tonality is more important than transparency. It depends I reckon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdm56 Posted February 25, 2004 Share Posted February 25, 2004 JML, Unless you are determined to go with tubes, you might take a look at a very nice Denon 80W integrated amp, for sale on the Crutchfield web site for about twelve hundred bucks. I am pretty sure it has tone controls. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klewless Posted February 25, 2004 Share Posted February 25, 2004 When I (rarely) get the urge to use tone controls, I put an EQ in the tape loop of my system and with the push of a button "I have it or I don't". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoggy Posted February 25, 2004 Share Posted February 25, 2004 I very rarely use my tone controls. My McIntosh C40 has 5 band eq built in. When they are in the nuetral position it takes them out of the circuit from what I understand. Nice feature if in fact it does work that way. The fact is whether LP or CD some are recorded/mixed/compressed so badly either some tone control or not ever listening to them is what ends up happening. Mostly these bad quality LP/CDs just aren't listened to by me. hoggy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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