cornwall placement in a room

[ramair455]

i heard somewher that cornwalls are best placed in corners of a room and the farther apart the better, any truth to that??

currently my listening room is 18.5 feet by 12 feet and i have my cw's in the corners of the long wall angled towards the centre... is this less than ideal??

if my questions seem silly, im new so go easy on me...i have been looking for cw's for a long time and just got my first pair a few weeks ago, tweeters were shot so i havent really had much time to listen yet, but they are fixed now and im picking them up tomorrow... cant wait.

b

[IndyKlipschFan]

your right use the long walls in, this set up will be incredible...

Make the sweet spot either right at you, by toeing them in, or just behind you to get incredible depth and stereo effects too. Come back and tell us what you think. I am sure you will be pleased!!

[colterphoto1]

Am I right in reading that you have your Cornwalls placed along the LONG side of the room, shooting into the SHORT axis? If so, I disagree with the placement. My Corns are placed NEAR the corners, but firing INTO the LONG axis of the room, that is to say that the system is on the SHORT wall. I believe it has the following advantages:

1. the dispersion characteristics of the Corns are fairly wide in the mid/high frequencies, for HT use, you normally would want more direct sound from the mains. Therefore, place the Corns slightly away from the side walls, and angling inward toward the sweet zone. This will also minimize early reflections from the side walls, which tends to blur the soundstage.

2. By placing furniture in the center of the room (sometimes difficult when firing into the short dimension), you gain the advantage of getting proper placement of your surround speakers.

Of course, this all depends on many factors out of our control, like the placement of windows and doors, and the inevitible SPOUSAL factor in furniture placement.

Good Listening- CORNS ROCK!

[IndyKlipschFan]

I maybe should have asked..for HT or music..

Colterphoto pointed out the shorter walls especially if it opens up to another room might be more enjoyable. (especially if placing other speakers for a HT environment.) I agree with him, but you also need to look at room treatments and where your listening position is too. Try it both ways. If this is for music... You may find the Cornwalls maybe 14-16 feet along your long wall sound incredible again esp. if it is for music only. The sound stage will just seem HUGE!!

Remember in a corner, or a wall.. Cornwall.

[Istari]

Actually PWK really perferred speakers on the long wall. A lot of of his tech papers (Dope from Hope) were dissertations on how much better things were if speakers were used in corners of the long wall. This placement was based on his studies of room size based on the golden means ratio. If you have a room that is 26' X 16' then the diaganal is approx 32', just the distance for a 32 HZ wave to fully form. Of course with this long of a wall PWK suggested the use of a center channel speaker with the same tonal abilities as the flanking speakers. For grins however you may want to experiment with placement on both walls. I'm at work now and can't give you the specifics.

GMR formula is 1.:1.2:1.618 10' X 16' X 26'...

[colterphoto1]

My response was in regards to a HT setup. PWK's statements relate to a large three channel music system.

There is also no logic to room size or any dimension thereof relating to the size of a waveform that can 'develop' in a room. Ask Ed or Arto about waveform theory. Dispersion and reflections (which both affect the soundstage) are the main concerns here.

I also stand behind my statement that the corners may NOT be the best place for a speaker to be placed, since it puts the woofer of a Cornwall nearly the same distance from three boundaries (floor, wall1, wall2, a trihedral space) therefore emphasizing a single frequency, whereas placing it a different distance from two walls would theoretically emphasize a broader bass bandwidth.

God, I LOVE all this theory, just move 'em around and hear what you like best- THAT"S what its all about!

[ramair455]

hey

well, i got the tweeters fixed and have had several hours to listen, having such an efficient speaker makes a really huge difference,

i am however dissapointed with the sound and maybe someone here can shed some light on this for me. im finding that the midrange is overwhelming and im only able to listen at higher volumes for short periods of time, like 10 minutes or so before my ears get fatigued. some tracks sound better than others but overall, way too much mid range, partially covering the horn seemed to help so im wondering if what i have here is a crossover problem or a room problem or if i have just spent to many years listening to commercial hi fi two way speakers. perhaps ther is a way to tame some of that midrange, or maybe i need to work on room tratment. by the way im using them for music only, no HT.

thanx

b

[KCM]

"i am however dissapointed with the sound and maybe someone here can shed some light on this for me. im finding that the midrange is overwhelming"

I'm glad I'm not the only one to feel this way.....in my case they seem to be getting a bit better with time. I think my pair of '72's sat more than they were played over the years. Maybe the crossover caps needed to re-form ?? I dunno, maybe I'm just getting used to them. Damping the squawker horns helped a bit, too. The biggest improvement (short of putting the La Scala's back in play ) I've found is using my old Hafler XL-280 SS amp that has been highly modified. This goes against the prevailing "Klipsch love tubes" theory, but it really does sound wonderful and totally tames the overly aggressive midrange. I have two really nice tube amps that sound great through the La Scala's, a better match than the Hafler with them. But they don't work at all with the Cornwall's. I bought a used pair of Bottlehead 2A3 SET Paramour's and Foreplay preamp to try. Should be arriving any day and I am anxious to see how that combination sounds.

Hope this helps. Obviously, they can sound very good when things are right so don't give up on them.

-Ken

[jrtrent]

Hopefully they just need some playing time, what with new tweeters and sitting for who knows how long. In one of the Klipsch audio papers, PWK said that every speaker of every type (that they auditioned?) sounds best on the floor in a corner (raises efficiency, reduces Doppler distortion, makes best use of a speaker's dispersion pattern), and yes, he recommended placing them along the long wall. The dispersion pattern of most speakers is such that angling them in at 45 degrees gives a wider sweet spot for good stereo effect, since those sitting off-center will be farther off-axis relative to the speaker nearest them (which makes it sound quieter) and more directly on-axis with the speaker in the far corner (making it relatively louder, thus offsetting the difference in physical distance). A center-channel speaker is not necessary, but will tighten image localization and, provided the center channel is adjustable in volume relative to the side channels, allow the user to spread out or collapse the left-right spread of instruments (I think Klipsch used the example of reducing the center channel volume for large orchestral works and raising it for more intimate jazz trios).

[HDBRbuilder]

simple fix...pick up an old HK430 receiver on ebay for cheap in good condition, then give them a listen. Look upstream for your problems...in S/S, the little H/K will solve those upstream problems.

[ramair455]

simple fix

what is an hk 430... i looked on ebay but found no listings, im also wondering if my cd player could be a culprit...the sound just seems to in your face, especially with the midrange, i wonder are there any adjustable crossovers for the cornwalls, like a cerwin vega d9 has externally adjustable high frequency dials'

[markgod]

HK 430 is a dual powered Harmon Kardon Receiver ,they also made a HK 730 both of these entered the line in Sept.1975. There were two other models the HK 630 and HK 930 that entered the line in Sept.1973.I have a HK 630 and a HK 730 of which I am willing to sell one or the other if you are interested. I had an HK 430 that I just sold to forum member HUhuru,after he put alittle effort into it ,he says it sounds just as good as his Fisher tube KX-200. This is what he did {1} cleaned the pots and switches with tuner cleaner/lubricant can get a spray can at Radio Shack {2} made sure all fuses were fast burn type {3}used a can of the compressed air to blow out all the dust and {4}put some CAIG PRO GOLD Conditioning Treatment on the contacts. Will sell the HK 730 for $65.00 plus cost of shipping ,this one is not as cleaned up as the HK630. The HK 630 I will sell for $110 plus the cost of shipping ,both of these cost you a little less than what I paid to buy and have them shipped to me,they were recent e-bay purchases. It cost me $86 to get the HK730 and $147.75 for the HK 630. I just bought a Cayin TA-30 with all the up grades from Bizzy Bees' ,new tube technology and really do not need all the receivers,so if anyone is interested let me know.

[HDBRbuilder]

H/K 430, 630, 730, and 930 are solid state twin-powered stereo AM/FM receivers made by Harmon Kardon in the early to mid 1970's. They are excellent solid state performers with Klipsch Heritage speakers. They have ultra-wide-band frequency response that is flat as a pancake. Because they are low-powered receivers, they have none of the backround noise normally associated with the majority of solid state amplifier sections of their time(hiss, etc.). They normally show up weekly on eBay. Their cost is extremely low in the used market...normally around 50 bucks or less for the 430 all the way up to 150 bucks or less for a 930. THey were CONSERVATIVELY rated in their power output...since Harman/Kardon tended to do it that way. The 430 was initially rated at 25 wpc, the 630 at 30 wpc, the 730 at 35 wpc, and the 930 at 45 wpc. Because they are twin-powered, with a separate power supply for each channel driven, they have no problem at all keeping up with transients normally found in complex musical passages. They are relatively simple "under the hood"...so they have lots of room for airflow, which means they run cool...this is important since heat build-up is a killer of older solid state amp sections. The 630, 730, and 930 have pre-amp out and main amp in connections, so that they can be used like separates...the 430 does not have this capability, though. The tuner sections in these receivers will surprise you, too!...Much better than most receivers have today...and even better than many current tuner separates. For Heritage speakers, these receivers will really surprise you...their ultra-wide band frequency response will bring out bass you never knew was there when using other power sources...they are clean and accurate throughout the midrange and high frequencies, too. The 630 and 930 came out for the 74 model year, the 430 and 730 came out for the 76 model year (september of the previous calendar year was when models came out in those days...just like cars). The 730 replaced the 630 in the lineup when it came out...since it was basically an upgrade of the 630...with 5 wpc additional output. There are a number of forum members who are living happily with one or more of these receivers powering heritage speakers from the Heresys and Cornwalls, all the way up through LaScalas and even K-horns. The biggest advantage on these receivers is the low cash outlay normally needed to aquire one...likely the best bang for the buck around! Their popularity has been climbing on the used market for the last couple of years...as people rediscover them...so another advantage is being able to use one for a time and sell it later for more than was paid for it...IF you find you are willing to part with it! The 430 was the best-selling receiver in its class in the world while it was manufactured...and in 1976 dollars it cost over 300 bucks new...which was quite high for its power-output range at that time. GIve one a try...besides, it costs less for a 430 than most people pay for a quad of tubes!

[garymd]

Back to placement. My room is 13x24 and I have my corns on the long wall but only about 12 ft apart (slightly toed in). The sweet spot is perfect on the sofa against the opposite long wall and it opens up the sound stage when there is room on eithe side of the speakers. Mine sound wonderful. I can listen at high volumes all day (if my wife isn't home) with no ear bleeding. Maybe you have acoustical issues in the room or the tweeter still isn't right. If the lascalas are more mellow on your ears then there's definitely something wrong.