muleman Posted March 14, 2004 Share Posted March 14, 2004 Hello all, I am curious about two products that I hear can make big differences in HT audio and video quality - they are 1) AC power noise filters and 2) high end AC power leads. An example of item 1 are the Monster surge protectors with noise filtering. There are a whole lines of these units, from power strips to component-looking units that would go on your rack. They espouse leading edge noise filtering technology and a noticeable improvement in Audio and vid quality. These products span the 100 - 1000 dollar range. The second product are super delux power lines - these are the leads that go from your AC wall outlet and plug in to the back of your component. I have read that the ones that typicall accompany an AV component are garbage in terms of sheilding, conductivity, loss, etc... An internet search on this product yields items that go up to 250 bucks for these things. What does the incredible body of knowledge that resides on this forum think about these products? Are these must haves? My HT currently doesnt include such "power conditioning" elements but, as an HT hobbyist, I am considering adding these elements... whaddyathink? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GRB Posted March 14, 2004 Share Posted March 14, 2004 Good questions Muleman. I have a "mid level" monster line condtioner / surge protector in the $125 range. It did fix the hum in my subs. I have wondered about the component type units with prices north of $1000 and exactly what they being to the table. I also wonder about the $250+ power cables. If the internal wiring in your component / sub, etc. is not the super-duper heavy duty cable, then what's the point. Curious to see what some of the other more experienced guys on the forum think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griffinator Posted March 14, 2004 Share Posted March 14, 2004 ---------------- On 3/14/2004 9:03:08 PM GRB wrote: Good questions Muleman. I have a "mid level" monster line condtioner / surge protector in the $125 range. It did fix the hum in my subs. I have wondered about the component type units with prices north of $1000 and exactly what they being to the table. I also wonder about the $250+ power cables. If the internal wiring in your component / sub, etc. is not the super-duper heavy duty cable, then what's the point. Curious to see what some of the other more experienced guys on the forum think. ---------------- The ones with prices north of $1000 bring several things to the table: 1) More complete isolation of components (yours has two filter banks, these have one for every plug) 2) Balanced AC voltage (stable 110V +/- 2-3V) - much more effective than a surge suppressor 3) Higher-amperage banks for your power amp and television sections (most contain a dedicated 15amp transformer just for your amp, giving it all the power it needs for those heavy transients) I've begun experimenting with building my own, as this would be a nice addon for my HT install clients - serious line conditioning for their serious systems, coming from us at a reasonable price instead of an outsource company like Monster at a ridiculous price. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fish Posted March 14, 2004 Share Posted March 14, 2004 If your equipment has a plug its prolly good enough for that unit.Surge protection is always a good idea,filters and all the other stuff is kinda out there.If you must spend 1k or so get a balanced power supply(not monster),this really could have a sonic advantage,imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GRB Posted March 14, 2004 Share Posted March 14, 2004 Griff, so the main advantage of the high end conditioners (aside from the independent filters) is to give a more stable current, removing or vastly reducing the possibility of spikes? Help me out a little here and don't laugh if I am way off base, during a say very dynamic load placed on an amp it would be less likely to create a spike? Or maybe the reverse, it would not be subject to a dip in current? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GRB Posted March 14, 2004 Share Posted March 14, 2004 Griff, so the main advantage of the high end conditioners (aside from the independent filters) is to give a more stable current, removing or vastly reducing the possibility of spikes? Help me out a little here and don't laugh if I am way off base, during a say very dynamic load placed on an amp it would be less likely to create a spike? Or maybe the reverse, it would not be subject to a dip in current? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griffinator Posted March 14, 2004 Share Posted March 14, 2004 The independent filters are a big part - kills crosstalk between devices. The stable incoming current is a huge help - feeding a constant 120V is very important to sensitive elctronic devices like your processor and DVD player. The high-amperage circuits for the amplifier stages is absolutely ENORMOUSLY important - if you don't give your amplifier a solid 15 amps of available current, at high volumes it will compress. The units I'm currently working on feature an array of 4 isolation transformers (2 for amps, one for digital devices, and one for analog devices) with individual filters on each outlet. These bastards weigh in at well over 200lbs! However, they do their job and they do it extremely well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minn_male42 Posted March 15, 2004 Share Posted March 15, 2004 ---------------- On 3/14/2004 9:03:08 PM GRB wrote: I also wonder about the $250+ power cables. If the internal wiring in your component / sub, etc. is not the super-duper heavy duty cable, then what's the point. ---------------- power cables!!!! the biggest snake oil in all of audio! just make sure that your power cable is a sufficient thickness to carry the 15 amps or 20 amps required by your component.... go over to the avs forum and look under the "tweaks" section.... there is a power cable debate that has beeen going on for months.... the biggest conclusion that i can summarize.... there is absolutely no science behind the claims of power cable manufacturers...... there has never been any double blind tests that have proven any cable manufacturer's claims..... power conditioners to address certain problems - yes surge protection - yes - should be required (IMHO) "upgraded" power cords - no Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griffinator Posted March 15, 2004 Share Posted March 15, 2004 Don't hold back, bro - tell us how you really feel about power cables! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhawk92 Posted March 15, 2004 Share Posted March 15, 2004 Mule- Check out this thread I've started over the Technical Questions forum. Some good info for you as well. http://forums.klipsch.com/idealbb/view.asp?topicID=47035&sessionID={B33CB9D3-EA97-4C61-9464-0ED974A192BB} Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minn_male42 Posted March 15, 2004 Share Posted March 15, 2004 ---------------- On 3/15/2004 12:12:42 PM Griffinator wrote: Don't hold back, bro - tell us how you really feel about power cables! ---------------- trying to keep it clean!!! after all....women and children do read this forum..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ygmn Posted March 15, 2004 Share Posted March 15, 2004 you should have protection for voltage variations such as spikes and low voltage problems.....This is easy enough...surge supressors with low voltage warning....ones for computers work real well here too....as they tend to be a bit quicker with protecting downstream power.....and are less expensive for the same thing.... power cords? This could bring up the speaker wire debate....but if your power is clean from a surge supressor...why would you need fancy shcmancy power cables? I mean AC voltage is pretty simple stuff...and well inside most Audio/Video components they have some form of power supply that will change the incoming voltage to what the device needs.....so the only thing the power cord needs to do...is stay hooked up and be larger enough for amp load....which ya figure most manufacturers will do hence they have a warranty issue with fires and get sued.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muleman Posted March 15, 2004 Author Share Posted March 15, 2004 thanks folks. Lots of good leads here. I checked the thread in the "technical section" of the forum. I am glad to see there are other companies in addition to Monster that make surge supressors+noise filtering products. I have some comparison shopping to do. I am most interested in the noise filtering function. I know that my 57" Hitachi and Marantz rcvr have build in surge supression, and my HT receptables are on a dedicated circuit and fuze - there are no other outlets on that loop other than the 6pack of receptables that services my HT. But that isnt as robust as I think it needs to be, a good bolt o flightning an I believe I would be fried. I am so curious about the claims of better picture and sound when using a noise filtering unit that I probably wont be able to resist adding this to my HT. Im a little concerned about the inductor-in-the-loop thing and the associated response time when subjected to high current transients. hmm... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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