Parrot Posted March 24, 2004 Share Posted March 24, 2004 ---------------- On 3/24/2004 7:48:55 PM neo33 wrote: No Paul! I have no problem understanding your post. It is you that don't understand yourself. ---------------- This is one of the silliest things you've ever posted, and that is saying a lot. Thanks for the chuckle. Russ, you are quite correct. I wouldn't have even brought up the issue except to counter the poor advice. And then I felt it was necessary to counter the deliberate, shameless, taking-out-of-context shenanigans. If Neo wants to keep bumping the thread to the top of the board all the time just to troll, that's his prerogative. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neo33 Posted March 24, 2004 Share Posted March 24, 2004 "This is one of the silliest things you've ever posted" Really now, Paul? Too proud to admit your own mistake eh, Paul. Can't defend your own sillinest so you have to come back with a no-substance post. Talking about trolling the thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coda Posted March 24, 2004 Share Posted March 24, 2004 recall Sam Tellig liking this, he likes SET, too. click image for review. Audition before buying, and maybe swap out the 6922s for Amperex Orange Globe 6DJ8s. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arj Posted March 24, 2004 Share Posted March 24, 2004 pathos Amps are good. have heard them with Sonus Fabersand were very smooth...I believe this is an italian design. For SS Amps..I cannot recommend the Sugden more, either the Classic A21a or the newer Bijou series (The Class A Amp) To me it has been a relevation and definitely a step above the Jolida 302.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KungFuNat Posted March 25, 2004 Author Share Posted March 25, 2004 to answer your questions guys, yes i listen to alot of AC/DC, led zeppelin, the who, pink floyd, and many other classic rock bands. but i also listen to a ton of instrumental rock like vai and satriani. loud is not my goal here, most of the time i listen to music at a medium-high volume but rarely earth-shaking. im looking for something that will give me the kick if i need to go there, but mostly i want to hear the fingers sliding over the guitar strings. perhaps not so much of an analitical sound but something that conveys the warm texture of AC/DCs "ride-on". from my extensive experience with heresy I's paired with an old sony professional 500wpc SS amp, i know that horns can get loud. we used to put the volume at 4 out of 10 and go out into the front yard to play ball, it was like we had a radio outside with us! but the sound was VERY bright and fatiguing. at medium volume the sound was a bit sweeter and natural sounding, thats what i loved. of course a few years later i came across real k-horns paired with an old tube-amp(no idea what model) and i was blown away at the natural sound. we were watching the evening news at a very low volume, but peter jennings voice was reverberating off of the walls. it was a very suttle effect at first but once i realised where it was comming from my jaw hit the floor. to this day ive never heard anything like it. thats the kind of thing im looking for, the natural and accurate bass tones, nothing bloated but if i need the power i want to know its there. this is a starter amp for me, it wont be the last amp i own, just a reference point. i have just recently moved out of the house i grew up in, and i was never allowed to own any large-stereo equipment. quite frankly, there was nowhere to put it. now that i have my own place with tons of room im finally going to bite the bullet on the system ive always wanted: horns! my current stereo is my computer paired with my promedia ultra 5.1s, i havent ever owned a real speaker in my life, so you can imagine how much of an upgrade even a mediocre amp will be. my house is pretty damn big and the area where i will be putting the speakers is in a room that is essentially 40'x15'with a large archway that leads into a foyer with almost an equal ammount of room. i do have company over often and as the weather warms up, i will be hosting BBQs almost every weekend. i want something with some power for the house, but it will almost never be ear-splitting. if i have to shout over the music then its just too damn loud, party or not. as for SET vs PP, i have no opinion. i have never heard a SET amp before but i would love to. unfortunately the chances of getting an audition with a pair of fortes before i buy them are probably nil. im sure SET amps are fantastic, but it seems that these provide a little less power than i would like. i know there are SET amps that provide a bit more juice, and correct me if im wrong, but i was under the impression that these were extremely expensive. my budget is $2000 max and i have no problems with going used. id be willing to go over budget if i was getting something i knew was the perfect match, but again this is a starter amp for me. as always, you guys are great. thanks for the responces. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubai2000 Posted March 25, 2004 Share Posted March 25, 2004 Sorry for repeating myself, but in terms of value for money I should think those Transcendent Sound amps are hard to beat. If you find 1.5.watts of the SE OTL rather scary, why not try the T-16 (after all if you find it's not powerful enough, you can get a second one later and bridge them)? If you go to their website (www.transcendentsound.com) you can read testimonials from actual owners (and I don't think they are fake, at least one person posts here as well). You can also ask Bruce which amp he recommends for your speakers. In terms of clarity (without being lifelessly neutral!) an OTL might be difficult to beat. And if you search for Erik Mandaville's initial post on the SE OTL, you'll find that he was also impressed by its bass performance. Myself I have noticed that I can/should lower the sub's crossover frequency and volume setting. So perhaps you up-coming amp might not just be a first venture, but already a definite keeper . According to the description of your listening habits, I'd seriously consider these options (sorry that I cannot really comment on the size of your room, but I have never really managed to master US measurements...LOL) ! Before everybody thinks I have gone crazy over my latest toy and will do so again soon: Okay, never say never, but do you remember when you discovered the Klipsch sound for the very first time? In my case I knew straight away that this was it, well, here it is very similar....in case this changes, I won't mind sharing that info as well. After all that's what we are here for, sharing and learning from other people's experiences.... Wolfram Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbflash Posted March 25, 2004 Share Posted March 25, 2004 Natgun, Thanks for the info. You do not want to get a SET because of your ROOM SIZE. My system is going to be moving into my other den once I remodel. The room is about your size and I just don't think my SET will give me the excitement in there as it does in my present den. I think it will drive the system, but the present energy and soul will be lost. Looking at your original post again you are asking about an integrated amp. Check out the following: http://gcaudio.com/products/steals.html http://www.upscaleaudio.com/demoN.htm Both sites have used integrated amps in your price range. Good luck, Danny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cjr888 Posted March 25, 2004 Share Posted March 25, 2004 ---------------- im in the market for my first hi-fi system and have been reccomended fortes due to my music tastes (mostly rock) and ive been trying to find a good amp to go with them. ive been looking for some alternatives to vintage amps and it seems like this might be a good choice. have any of you guys heard this amp? ---------------- On the comments about not wanting a SET for your first amplifier, I'd disagree -- assuming you can get a trial in your own room and ensure it would be OK, I couldn't recommend anything better than trying a SET first -- probably would have saved me from swapping god knows how many amplifiers in and our before I tried SET. I'll leave it at that, but if you have that large of a room, you might consider some extra power (though it still could be SET), but certainly don't discount the philosophy due to your listening taste. My two cents. Some options from different philosophies, but I will mention Hybrid. First, the Van Alstine recommendation was a good one. Definitely check them out. Second, you're in Boston, correct? You might want to touch base with the folks in the Boston Audio Society (http://bostonaudiosociety.org/) -- could probably find owners of interesting equipment that could provide demos for you. Regarding integrateds, and hybrid integrateds, you might want to check out the JLTi, its basically a gainClone with a tube from end. http://members.ozemail.com.au/~joeras/ One amplifier if you are interested only in current production vs. vintage that might fit your bill based on listening tastes and wanting a bit more power would be the Manley Stingray. This sounds like it might fit your bill. http://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazine/equipment/0500/stingray.htm http://www.manleylabs.com/containerpages/stingray99.html Another that comes to mind is the MESA Baron (used for price range) or MESA Tigris Integrated. You can tweak the sound to your liking probably much, much more than you'd even want to... http://www.mesaboogie.com/Product_Info/For_Audiophiles/for_audiophiles.htm Another thought is going SS, and getting yourself a tube pre. For the amplifier part, I'm thinking of any of the Monarchy Audio amplifiers http://www.monarchyaudio.com/ Next one is the Dodd Audio amplifiers. I've heard nothing but good things on these, and he will customize to your liking. http://www.gr-research.com/dodd_amp.htm Last thought (I swear), is going with any of the TriPath based amplifiers, whether you go for the little Powerwave 20w unit meant for computers that goes for $90 (not joking here) with a cheap tube preamplifier, or look towards the Bel Canto's of the world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBrennan Posted March 25, 2004 Share Posted March 25, 2004 Mdeneen----Like goons who think that silver wires sound "bright". I swear, many of the audiophiles out there are no more advanced in their thinking than people of the South Seas bartering for trinkets with Captain Cook. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrot Posted March 25, 2004 Share Posted March 25, 2004 In this way of funny reasoning, how about CD players: The more the unit weighs, somehow the more solid and weightier its presentation. Why bother to evaluate it sonically when you can just put it on the bathroom scale. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrot Posted March 25, 2004 Share Posted March 25, 2004 Wow! That is amazing and puts a lot of audio preferences in perspective. Are you going to believe your ears or your lying eyes? Seems like the eyes have it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted March 25, 2004 Share Posted March 25, 2004 eye eye captain I often sit around and LOOK at the music Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBrennan Posted March 25, 2004 Share Posted March 25, 2004 Having been the victim of this kind of self-delusion myself on a couple of occasions is one reasom I'm VERY wary of strange audiophile claims. I figger that if I can bull**** myself others are at least as capable of such behavior as I am, more so actually as I'm at least aware of the possibility. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted March 25, 2004 Share Posted March 25, 2004 Listen in the dark, close your eyes for a BLIND testing!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clipped and Shorn Posted March 25, 2004 Share Posted March 25, 2004 oops..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clipped and Shorn Posted March 25, 2004 Share Posted March 25, 2004 It is called synesthesia, a well known phenomenon. What we observe here is either hard-wired into our perceptual systems or it is a conditioned response reinforced by audio salesmen and/or audiophiles who enjoy writing fiction. It is also sometimes called "the loss of the 'as if' ", a hallucininatory type of experience at the root of metaphoric thinking and the foundation of "mythology". In a true state of this "lost as if" one might think they literally saw the metaphoric figure, like a bearded guy with puffed out cheeks calling himself Mr. Zephyr.....etc. C-7b5 (being a sepia and indigo harmonic for a dark wet rainy day) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fini Posted March 25, 2004 Share Posted March 25, 2004 "warm," "impact," "pinched," "solid." I don't know if we're talking about the morning listening session, or the morning "constitution." I will make amends... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rtaylor Posted March 25, 2004 Share Posted March 25, 2004 ---------------- On 3/25/2004 12:58:07 PM mdeneen wrote: Yeah, this mixing of metaphors has fascinated me for 30 years. Ever since I conducted my own "visual v. aural" experiment in 1975. I built two identical 50W tube amps. One had the normal working components on a small chassis. The other was the same circuit and parts, however it was on a HUGE chassis, with two extra large (but not connected) old power transformers and a half-dozen extra "Milk Bottle" capacitors on the chassis - also not connected to anything. In A/B listening tests, about 9 of 10 listeners "preferred" the larger, heavier amplifier. Ok, no big deal. But what was fascinating was the WHY part. "Much heavier and stronger bass!" "More Balls!" "Stiffer and more robust!" were the typical comments. It was clear to me that the eyes were creating an expectation of something better in the bigger, heavier, more complex looking amp. Weird relationships were being formed between bigness, heavyness, complexity and adjectives of sound perception. And likewise gold looks warmer than platinum or silver. Metal sounds tinnier than carbon and right on down the line. I've seen this for so many years I just assume it is an unavoidable aspect of human nature. Electricity and magnetism are pretty abstract concepts and something is needed to bring it into a graspable form, I suppose. mdeneen ---------------- And I'm thinking of juicy blueberries and warm pie! Yummy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clipped and Shorn Posted March 25, 2004 Share Posted March 25, 2004 Synesthesia is related and part of it, but maybe it is not all of it in this case. Psuedo-science and naive incorrect beliefs about fictitious causal relationships seems also to be prevalent. Politicians count on this phenomenon. Humans hardly ever fail them on this count. the sky is falling...... -k6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rtaylor Posted March 25, 2004 Share Posted March 25, 2004 I myself prefer the black speaker cloth, a much warmer and darker tone. I like the added bass and midrange warmth. Think of a black t-shirt on a sunny day. The beige or white is so much cooler,(bright and edgy)that it is simply unbearable to listen to while I drink my leinenkugel's creamy dark beer. Mark, will I have a problem with blueberries not mixing with a good cold adult malted beverage. If so is it too late to renegotiate? Maybe changing the faceplate to limburger or something? Please help me here, I'm in turmoil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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