KungFuNat Posted March 22, 2004 Share Posted March 22, 2004 ive been reading reviews of the pathos classic one amplifier, which is a hybrid integrated amp. it has a tube pre-amp stage and a solid-state power amp stage.. the latest revision (70wpc) has gotten rave reviews. aparently it has a warm "tube" type sound but retains the impact of SS. stereophile said it is litterally one of the best amps on the planet. im in the market for my first hi-fi system and have been reccomended fortes due to my music tastes (mostly rock) and ive been trying to find a good amp to go with them. ive been looking for some alternatives to vintage amps and it seems like this might be a good choice. have any of you guys heard this amp? do you think it would match well with a set of fortes? http://www.pathosacoustics.com/newclassiceng.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KungFuNat Posted March 23, 2004 Author Share Posted March 23, 2004 anyone? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cut-Throat Posted March 23, 2004 Share Posted March 23, 2004 As someone that owns SS, Hybrid Tube, Push-Pull Tube and SET Amplifiers and have tried all my Klispch Belles as well as with my Friends Fortes - I recommend you look at low powered SET amps. It is what I find most pleasurable. Look at Welborne Labs - I currently have a pair of DRD45s. You probably would benefit more from the DRD2A3s or DRD300Bs. They are avaialable in Kit or Assembled form. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrot Posted March 23, 2004 Share Posted March 23, 2004 Not familiar with that amp, NatGun. Do not even consider a SET amp as your first venture into hi-fi. Klipsch recommends a *minimum* of 20 watts amplification. With a low-watt amp your rock music is going to be clipped, mushy, and compressed if you play it at realistic levels. You might as well run it through a limiter. Low-watt amps can sound excellent with certain material and under certain circumstances. The main thing is to keep them within the range they were designed for. If you want an amp for all things, low-watt is not the way to go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KungFuNat Posted March 23, 2004 Author Share Posted March 23, 2004 so you guys would still reccomend a vintage scott? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cut-Throat Posted March 23, 2004 Share Posted March 23, 2004 Nat, Well, I would recommend a SET amp! Understand this Nat - The people on this forum that recommend SET amps, have all had other amps in their systems and use their ears to judge the sound. They are sticking with their SET amps. The folks on this forum that don't recommend SETs have never owned a SET amp and are merely reading specs. Whose recommendation do you trust? - The Choice is yours, Get a SET amp now or upgrade later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrot Posted March 23, 2004 Share Posted March 23, 2004 Nat, Just about any of us here could own low-powered SET if we heard *any* advantage to it. Some people are not bothered by its limitations. But recommending it as a full-service amp is poor advice because it can't handle anything outside of its very limited range. If you want an amp for late night, soft listening, it could be a fine choice. As to what *should* be recommended, there are hundreds, even thousands, of good choices. A lot of it is going to come down to your personal preferences. You can go tube, solid state, or digital. New or used, or very used (vintage). If you go vintage, you should have it refurbished for best results. How much money do you want to spend? Do you play records? Do you listen to the radio? Do you want separate components or integrated? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edster00 Posted March 23, 2004 Share Posted March 23, 2004 **snip** I'm staying out of this one, sorry for the big snip. Looking at your original post again, I doubt SET would be suitable for use with Forte's. When I had Forte's I was using higher powered amps. Music sounded so good I started getting large more sensitive speakers and as my speakers got more sensitive I started going lower and lower in output power. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-MAN Posted March 23, 2004 Share Posted March 23, 2004 Marshall (guitar amps) uses the tube-pre, SS output topology in most of their guitar amps. It is a proven method to get the "classic tube sound" at reasonable or at least reduced cost. There would be one immediate advantage that I could see: 1) a warranty is available on new gear There is a drawback also: 1) tubes require periodic replacement DM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBrennan Posted March 23, 2004 Share Posted March 23, 2004 Cut Throat---That's a rash generalization. I owned a SET and discarded it. I've heard many SETs in my system at Chicago Horn Club meetings. I know several horn enthusiasts who have used SETs and discarded them; good ones too like Audio Notes and Bernings. Actually you're kinda new to horns right? I'd consider you more of a SET enthusiast using horns in self-defense than as a horn enthusiast as such. No insult or flame meant, that's just how I read you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted March 23, 2004 Share Posted March 23, 2004 tom - what did you end up with then, I would think SET would be better in your smaller digs.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBrennan Posted March 23, 2004 Share Posted March 23, 2004 Colin---I'm using an old Fisher tube receiver, a 500B. Sounds very nice and has a great radio too. I've heard so many things sound good (and bad) with horns that I'm loathe to say that there is any one best way to go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piranha Posted March 23, 2004 Share Posted March 23, 2004 ---------------- On 3/23/2004 5:24:32 PM TBrennan wrote: Cut Throat---That's a rash generalization. I owned a SET and discarded it. I've heard many SETs in my system at Chicago Horn Club meetings. I know several horn enthusiasts who have used SETs and discarded them; good ones too like Audio Notes and Bernings. Actually you're kinda new to horns right? I'd consider you more of a SET enthusiast using horns in self-defense than as a horn enthusiast as such. No insult or flame meant, that's just how I read you. ---------------- Nice post Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leok Posted March 23, 2004 Share Posted March 23, 2004 Nat, Due to their high efficiency, horn-loaded speakers utilize an amplifier's low power performance, even if you require 20 Watts or higher for your style of music and listening. Many amplifiers, especially transistor designs, have distortion that increases significantly at sub-watt power. This distortion makes the speakers sound harsh and thin. Tube designs are less likely to have such significant distortion increases at low power and tend to sound smoother and more full. If you can try an amp or two, especially a decent tube design, you will get an idea what this is about. Transistor Class-A designs, such as the Sugden amplifier, also do well at low powers. The amp you mention might be great, but the transistor output might not work as well with an efficient horn speaker as it would with a less efficient, more conventional type. I would definately compare the Pathos with an all tube design before a purchase. Leo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minn_male42 Posted March 23, 2004 Share Posted March 23, 2004 audio by van alstine makes several tubed preamps that sound great.... http://www.avahifi.com/root/equipment/preamplifier/comparison_grid.htm they also make some very nice hybrid (tube/solid state) amps..... the top line model puts out 250 watts - plenty of power to make your fortes rock!!! http://www.avahifi.com/root/equipment/amplifier/fetvalve_amps.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KungFuNat Posted March 24, 2004 Author Share Posted March 24, 2004 basically im just looking for a more modern amp for use with fortes that wont break the bank. from what ive been reading hear all-tube amps are the best bet, but modern tube amps with a decent amount of power seem to be very expensive. im just not sure if i want to go the vintage route, i like the idea of a warantee. id just hate a vintage amp to crap out on me for one reason or another and be stuck with a huge repair bill from one of the few vintage amp repair/refurbishers out there. i also like to have some options besides the vintages. im just trying to make the most informed decision i can. thanks for all the help guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbflash Posted March 24, 2004 Share Posted March 24, 2004 I really was going to stay out of this but... How big is your room that you are going to be using your system in? What are you going to be using for a source? CD,TT or both. If you don't plan on using a TT then you don't have to worry about a phono section and you just saved some money. How loud do you play your music? Do you have to worry about neighbors, sleeping babys, etc? Do you listen at levels that make the pictures rattle on the walls 24/7? When you say Rock what exactly is Rock? ACDC, Godsmack, Josh Ritter, Rolling Stones, Minus 5, REM, BTO, Cake, Martin Sexton, etc. The reason I ask is that in my present room I am using a SET (Wright 3.5) amp with Cornwalls. 90% of the time I have to problems. Its that 10% of the time when I have had a couple of beers too many or drank a bottle of wine when I really want to crank it up and feel that chest pounding bass, that my SET amps just will not go there. Until I get to that point my amps are great. I don't understand the clipping, distortion part. I rolled a new preamp into my system Friday night. Saturday I put my system through its paces. After a 6 pack some how I ended up listening "PF Wish You Were Here" loud and it sounded great. I have a PP amp on order to see what all the fuss and bad blood is about. I will report back on it after I have had it for awhile, if I am still around here. But to just say stay away from SET is wrong. Depending on your room size, music tastes, etc SET amps are something to consider. Too all of you, I know I don't know what I am talking about and I am an idiot. So I said it for you so you don't have to respond. SET amps are bad and they are the reason we are at war in Iraq, there is global warming and Janet Jackson had a wardrobe malfunction. I'm out of this. I will let the non idiots continue. Danny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxg Posted March 24, 2004 Share Posted March 24, 2004 Tube/SS integrated you say? I say: go Greek!!! http://www.tsakiridis-devices.com/odysseas.htm But then again I would, wouldn't I!! Actually I have never heard this amp on horns. Tony bought one to go with his B&W CDM1's and loves it to bits - cant believe how well it controls the bass apparently. He runs it at 100wpc into 4 ohms. Price on this side of the pond is considered VERY reasonable at 380 euros but with the $ rate being as it is and the cost of transportation you might be able to find better value locally. At $1.24/Euro that comes out around $480 and add something around $200 to get it there. Just wish one of you guys would spring for a Tsakiridis so we could geta second opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minn_male42 Posted March 24, 2004 Share Posted March 24, 2004 here is another option..... bel canto makes some awesome sounding equipment..... they have a 2 channel integrated amp.... they use digital amplification that has a definite "tube-like" quality..... http://belcantodesign.com/prod_evo2i.html only $2990..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hwatkins Posted March 24, 2004 Share Posted March 24, 2004 Hello Nat - a couple of things come to mind as I read the thread. First - the online community can seem disproportionatly in favor of tube amplification since it is not true mainstream and the user community is in response to a need to share information. Therefore, it may appear that tubes are the amps of choice when there are a significant bunch of folks quite pleased with their SS setups. From experience - I run both types of setups and there are differences that I can't really describe as better/worse. Here is my preference - When I want low volume smoothness I generally plop some vinyl down and use the tube integrated amp. When I want it a bit louder and/or multi channel I really enjoyed the percieved dynamics and clarity of SS. If you have a significant predisposition to a specific type of sound you can make the appropriate choice. Since I wander all over the place on what I like I choose to have a couple (really three if you want to get technical) of set ups to satisfy those various differences. Quite honestly, that is a bit overboard - I could live with either and enjoy it tremendously (I have done so in the past). I cannot participate in the SET stuff - I don't have enough hours listening to give an opinion. I am speaking to push/pull tube setups... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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