Cal Blacksmith Posted March 24, 2004 Share Posted March 24, 2004 This is the amp I just bought about 3 weeks ago. Used on Ebay was $1100 with the remainder of the mfg warranty New it was about $2400 you still need a pre-amp though. It is 55wpc and I have yet to really turn it up, with the Fortes I have I start to get to the pain level before the amp is pushed hard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leok Posted March 24, 2004 Share Posted March 24, 2004 minn_male42 has an excellent suggestion. The pwm (sometimes refered to as digital) amps do tend to have excellent low power properties while offering substantial power. And their cost is reasonable. Again, if you can audition it would be good, but they are an excellent solution. There are several manufacturers and models. Obwiously I don't have an interest in much power .. my pwm amp has a max power of 8 Watts / channel. But I don't listen at particularly loud levels. Usually I listen at well under a Watt. Many people use much more power. Leo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted March 24, 2004 Share Posted March 24, 2004 Tom, I had the Fisher 500 also should never have let it go, how come they never have the covers on? Natgun, Take what you read in the magazines very lightly, they are often thinly veiled endorsements from the advertisers, especially disregard any review that does NOT listen to super-sensitive big ole horns it wont sound the same on your loudspeakers, horns are so much more revealing of front-end equipment defects than any other type of loudspeaker. Cone lovers do NOT appreciate what horn lovers value. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soeren Basboell Posted March 24, 2004 Share Posted March 24, 2004 Just a little comment: Tripath is not based on a PWM principle, it is based on spread spectrum principle. Regards Søren Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leok Posted March 24, 2004 Share Posted March 24, 2004 Søren, Thanks. I thought I'd tone it down a bit for the discussion at hand, but technically it's not just simple pwm. Leo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neo33 Posted March 24, 2004 Share Posted March 24, 2004 "Do not even consider a SET amp as your first venture into hi-fi." Horns are made for SET amps and SET amps are made for horns. You don't know what SET amps can do until you hear it. You do not make blind recommendation on something you have no experience with. Apparently you have no idea what is "clipped, mushy or compressed". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubai2000 Posted March 24, 2004 Share Posted March 24, 2004 Okay, I'd rather stay out of those SET/PP 'exchanges' and certainly respect other opinions on what sounds best for a given listening situation, yet I am with Danny on this one. I gave my old vinyl copy of 'The Wall' a spin last night and I am dead sure, it never sounded so good....and the neighbours must have had fun, too. So depending on listening conditions even 1.5 watts of the SE OTL can provide a lot of pleasure... . To be honest, I really love all my other amps(!), but had I discovered the Trancendent amp before, I might have decided to save some $$$s (though the journey there was fun, too!)....so even a first 'serious' amp should be chosen carefully...and be auditioned if possible.... Wolfram Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrot Posted March 24, 2004 Share Posted March 24, 2004 ---------------- On 3/24/2004 12:08:21 PM neo33 wrote: Apparently you have no idea what is "clipped, mushy or compressed". ---------------- Sure I do, and that's why I recommend against low-watt SET. You don't recognize clipping, mush, and compression, and that's why you're happy. Pretty simple if you bother to think about it. You remember this quote from your hero, don't you? ***I was saying that I dont think a tube amp gets HARD when it clips compared to SS. IT just starts get more mushy and compressed.*** Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minn_male42 Posted March 24, 2004 Share Posted March 24, 2004 it's really pretty simple.... take what everyone here has recommended with a grain of salt..... choose a couple of options that fit your budget and can be returned for full credit.... and give them a try.... keep what sounds best to you! cheers! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted March 24, 2004 Share Posted March 24, 2004 Natgun said, "I'm in the market for my first hi-fi system, and have been recommended Fortes due to my music tastes (mostly rock), and I've been trying to find a good amp to go with them." The Pathos was well reviewed. It would be an excellent amp for you to try if you can find a good deal on one. Actually, we WANT you to buy one, because some here, including myself -- have thought it might be a good match with Klipsch. C'mon Kevin and Neo, the fellow listens to Rock Music on Fortes -- and you guys are recommending 1 and 3 watt amps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-MAN Posted March 24, 2004 Share Posted March 24, 2004 There will always be a discussion whenever the subject is amplifiers... and that is a good thing. However, endless rants without examples are pointless, for me anyway. I will happily consider recommendations from you guys, but I am specifically looking for hands-on (and name some names) experience with specific gear. Don't just tell me that SET is the way to go or not to go, I want specific details, like: 1) how you arrived at your opinion; test-driven or owned, etc... part of your system for how long, etc. 2) what other gear comparisons did you make 3) what the other system components are 4) cite some example source material and tell us what to listen for, etc. Present your case, or, unfortunately, others will most likely try to shoot it down (that don't make them right, either)... I really want a "review" from somebody whose opinion I have come to trust, not just a generality; I can get that from the trade mags... DM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBrennan Posted March 24, 2004 Share Posted March 24, 2004 I used to use the entire output of a 200 wpc Dynaco 400 reproducing rock and roll music at REALISTIC volumes with Klipsch LaScala speakers. That was back in the 1970s when my musical taste ran to realistic reproduction of Mountain, UFO, The Stooges, MC 5, Rush, AC-DC, The Ramones and other hard rocking bands. Whether this was wise isn't the point, that 200 watts is needed even with a 104db efficient speaker is. Now with an SET you may be getting nice sound, sound you prefer, whatever. But you AIN'T gettin' realistic reproduction of rock and roll music, no way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neo33 Posted March 24, 2004 Share Posted March 24, 2004 "C'mon Kevin and Neo, the fellow listens to Rock Music on Fortes -- and you guys are recommending 1 and 3 watt amps." I am not recommending anything, Dean. I just don't agree with Paul recommendation against SET amps in general, something he has no experience and he is NOT QUALIFY to speak against them. Do you see I mention anything about 3-watts SET amps in my post? Apparently, there are low, medium and high power watt SET amps. Even with rock music, you don't need 20 watts to play at moderate volume. Do you see Natgun said anything about "LOUD"? And notice what he said: "I'm in the market for my first hi-fi system...I've been trying to find a good amp to go with them." I am sure he's going after sound quality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrot Posted March 24, 2004 Share Posted March 24, 2004 Sorry, Neo, your response isn't going to fly. I specified low-watt SET in every post. Getting back to the clipping, compression, and mush aspects: It'd be one thing if you said you listened to recordings of a female jazz singer with light piano background in a cocktail lounge, and at a quiet level so that your ears were well protected. But you recently mentioned playing an unidentified symphony at levels that sounded realistic to you and your neighbors. I'm not even going to talk about the absurdity of thinking that can be done with a couple watts. I can guarantee you that under those circumstances there was clipping, compression, and mush out the yin yang. If you didn't *recognize* it as such, super. I'm glad you enjoyed it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy Landau Posted March 24, 2004 Share Posted March 24, 2004 NatGan, I've owned the original version of the Classic one. It sounded great with a pair of Thiel CS1.5 and JBL L-300's. I think that it will mate with the Forte's quite well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avman Posted March 24, 2004 Share Posted March 24, 2004 as far as this SET amp power/volume issue, i know i have driven my SS amps to the point of sounding 'compressed' or 'thin' or like there was no more headroom,but that was REALLY LOUD!!(over 115dB at the listening position). now i like to listen a little on the loud side, and at 'concert-level' when i get 'enthusiastic'so the concept of 3-5watts isn't going to cut it for me, and i DON'T have to try SET to know that. onto natgun's topic, i would think a combo tube pre-w/SSamp should do the trick,based on my friend's tube pre-w/carver SS amp setup on his KLF-30's(the same speakers i have).this setup sounds really good at low volume,but can also crank when he wants it to. JMO- avman. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neo33 Posted March 24, 2004 Share Posted March 24, 2004 "Sorry, Neo, your response isn't going to fly. I specified low-watt SET in every post." Sorry, Paul, you've just contradicted yourself (AGAIN). Here's what you said earlier "Do not even consider a SET amp as your first venture into hi-fi." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrot Posted March 24, 2004 Share Posted March 24, 2004 Here was my complete post: ****Do not even consider a SET amp as your first venture into hi-fi. Klipsch recommends a *minimum* of 20 watts amplification. With a low-watt amp your rock music is going to be clipped, mushy, and compressed if you play it at realistic levels. You might as well run it through a limiter. Low-watt amps can sound excellent with certain material and under certain circumstances. The main thing is to keep them within the range they were designed for. If you want an amp for all things, low-watt is not the way to go.**** How you could fail to understand that I am talking about low-watt amps, well it boggles the mind. Really, it calls into serious question lots of things. Unless you're trying to be funny. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neo33 Posted March 24, 2004 Share Posted March 24, 2004 "How you could fail to understand that I am talking about low-watt amps" No Paul! I have no problem understanding your post. It is you that don't understand yourself. You intentionally generalize that SET amps are low-watt amps in your very first sentence. "Do not even consider a SET amp as your first venture into hi-fi." That's a pretty strong statement considering you know nothing about SET amps! And let me repeat that sentence again: "Do not even consider a SET amp as your first venture into hi-fi." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minn_male42 Posted March 24, 2004 Share Posted March 24, 2004 "Sorry, Neo, your response isn't going to fly. I specified low-watt SET in every post." Sorry, Paul, you've just contradicted yourself (AGAIN). Here's what you said earlier "Do not even consider a SET amp as your first venture into hi-fi." ********************************************************************* Here was my complete post: ****Do not even consider a SET amp as your first venture into hi-fi. Klipsch recommends a *minimum* of 20 watts amplification. With a low-watt amp your rock music is going to be clipped, mushy, and compressed if you play it at realistic levels. You might as well run it through a limiter. Low-watt amps can sound excellent with certain material and under certain circumstances. The main thing is to keep them within the range they were designed for. If you want an amp for all things, low-watt is not the way to go.**** How you could fail to understand that I am talking about low-watt amps, well it boggles the mind. Really, it calls into serious question lots of things. Unless you're trying to be funny. ********************************************************************** guys..... anytime anyone remotely mentions the word "AMP", you both go into automatic mode and spew forth the exact same that has been said over and over and over again.... everyone knows both of your positions...we've read them many, many times..... not taking sides here... please just express your opinion and then let it go.... IMHO..it would be better for the forum if you did... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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