Deang Posted April 18, 2004 Author Share Posted April 18, 2004 That was pretty much max for me too. Fun and obnoxious with sufficient headroom -- and no earbleed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daddy Dee Posted April 18, 2004 Share Posted April 18, 2004 Dean and Bob, Wow, this has been a great thread. Thanks for the inside dope on the type A crossover. I've changed out the squawker to the #3 tap and have had the joy of a new pair of Khorns this afternoon. Put on Flo and Eddie's "Illegal, Immoral and Fattening" which is a fine rock recording, IMO (it is certainly coarse, rude and raucous) and now have on Dianna Krall "Live in Paris" and the Khorns have never sounded more balanced to my ears. Don't know if it's my amps, or room acoustics, but my Khorns have always sounded a bit shy on bass. Now they sound fabulous. Hooooaahhhh! Was PWK a great man or what?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted April 18, 2004 Author Share Posted April 18, 2004 Well now, if he was THAT great, he would have picked the #3 tap as the default setting. Really though -- a genius. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Warren Posted April 18, 2004 Share Posted April 18, 2004 ---------------- On 4/18/2004 8:48:43 AM DeanG wrote: Dee, the #4 tap on the autoformer is the default setting for the Type As. Moving to the #3 tap lowers the squawker output about 3db. >>And thus doubles the reflected impedance the cap sees by a factor of two which then reduced the crossover frequency from 380Hz to 160Hz (ouch!). Is that what you really wanted to do? Good thing for you the phenolic diaphragm is nearly indestructible. Can't say the same thing for the coil however. I felt lowering the output here would help things with the music some of us like to listen too. You've done that! You've turned the mid-range into a "mid-bass" driver. Good show! ---------------- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted April 18, 2004 Author Share Posted April 18, 2004 Crap John, you're kidding me. So then, the #3 tap isn't really an option then is it? So, we are back to the #4 tap and stuffing a sock into the squawker. I have various expletives I would like to use now -- anyone mind? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dflip Posted April 18, 2004 Share Posted April 18, 2004 Dean: This was posted the other day on the techical questions forum by Al K and may answer a question or two. ------------------- The AA network is the A with a higher order tweeter filter and zener diodes to protect the tweeter. The A will sound crisper than the AA becasue it has less loss then the AA to the tweeter. About 3 dB less. The A will not protect the tweeter from low frequency energy. This can cause distortion at high levels or even a blown tweeter. The AA can damage some amps at high levels becasue the zener diodes actually short-circuit the amp when the kick in. Both networks have very poor impedance curves rising to roughly 30 Ohms around 2500 Hz or so. Al K. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted April 18, 2004 Author Share Posted April 18, 2004 Yes, I saw that -- but john is talking about something different. Al was dealing with the difference between the A and AA as far as the tweeter is concerned -- John is talking about the relationship between the squawker and K-33. If John is right (and I'm sure he is) -- then no one should ever be using the #3 tap on the autoformer to manipulate the output of the squawker. I guess what you are saying is that if we like the sound of the A on the #3 tap -- use the AA. Yes? it's not the same though. We want to lower the midrange output a little. John, will a series resistor work? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkrop Posted April 18, 2004 Share Posted April 18, 2004 I have no idea how my name became associated with Scott custom cabinets, but give credit where credit is due! Way to go arf! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Warren Posted April 18, 2004 Share Posted April 18, 2004 ---------------- On 4/18/2004 6:47:31 PM DeanG wrote: Yes, I saw that -- but john is talking about something different. Al was dealing with the difference between the A and AA as far as the tweeter is concerned -- John is talking about the relationship between the squawker and K-33. If John is right (and I'm sure he is) -- then no one should ever be using the #3 tap on the autoformer to manipulate the output of the squawker. >>manipulating the autotransformer taps on any of the Klipsch balancing networks is not recommended. In the AA for example, the 13uF cap "sees" the reflected impedance of the driver when it is attached to the 0-4 taps (something like 30Ohms). If the taps are changed the impedance changes and hence the crossover frequency changes. I guess what you are saying is that if we like the sound of the A on the #3 tap -- use the AA. Yes? it's not the same though. We want to lower the midrange output a little. You can play with the taps but you have to modify the cap values. If you 2X the impedance you have to 1/2 the series cap (13/2 = 6.5 uF) to retain the same crossover point. ---------------- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted April 18, 2004 Author Share Posted April 18, 2004 "...manipulating the autotransformer taps on any of the Klipsch balancing networks is not recommended. In the AA for example, the 13uF cap..." I think you meant to say, "In the A for example...". The AA doesn't have a 13uF cap. Thanks for heads up John, and the mod as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3dzapper Posted April 18, 2004 Share Posted April 18, 2004 Dean, the cure for adjustability opf the squaker output to match room accustics and amps with a constant impedance load seen by the amps is ALK networks. I think Hoggy said he liked what you did for his or was that love? Something said above drove me to measure the capactance of the original oil caps of thefour type AAs I have. In order in mF: 1.71, 2.17, 12.9; 1.66 (and falling due to internal leakage) ,2.14 ,13.1; 1.97,1.98,12.72; 2.0 ,2.0 ,12.76. I was surprised at how close the 13mF caps were after 25 years. It is as obvious in the measurements as it is in listening that the second pair (OE on my '77 k-horns) sound better than the ones I bought on ebay (from a pair of Lascalas). Even though my originals measure good, they sound better with good F&F caps and even better with a 1mF F&F across the two 2mFs. Rick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Warren Posted April 18, 2004 Share Posted April 18, 2004 ---------------- On 4/18/2004 7:33:50 PM DeanG wrote: The AA doesn't have a 13uF cap. ---------------- See below Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted April 18, 2004 Author Share Posted April 18, 2004 The problem with the old cans is that though they hold their capacitance values, their ESR values begin to climb. The losses through climbing resistance means not many are hearing their horns the way PK did. Also, from years of expanding, shrinking, and stretching -- most old phenolic diaphragms are a little worn out. Along with the crossover parts, many should consider new diaphragms as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tubelover Posted April 18, 2004 Share Posted April 18, 2004 I would like to replace my AA networks. But the price might scare me off? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted April 18, 2004 Author Share Posted April 18, 2004 No fair doctoring those schematics with photoshop John. Yikes, I knew that. I have no idea what I was thinking. I guess I wasn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daddy Dee Posted April 18, 2004 Share Posted April 18, 2004 Dean, I could deal with Hepta Bronte and even Flux... but now Mother Hen instead of DeanG. Is this a joke from Trey? How can you change your Klipsch ID? This I find to be disconcerting. Also, please note that Mother+Hen is redundant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted April 18, 2004 Author Share Posted April 18, 2004 Anyone can change their Moniker. Go to My Profile, My Information, and change it to whatever you want. 'Mother Hen' is an inside joke between Craig and myself. He's always accusing me of 'nagging' everyone. But since it annoys you -- I'll change it back right away! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BEC Posted April 18, 2004 Share Posted April 18, 2004 Spectrum Analyzer trace of actual midrange output of Type A crossover with tap 3 and then tap 4 of the autotransformer feeding the squawker. Bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted April 18, 2004 Author Share Posted April 18, 2004 Interesting. Didn't PK or anyone from Klipsch ever cover this in a Dope from Hope? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daddy Dee Posted April 18, 2004 Share Posted April 18, 2004 ---------------- On 4/18/2004 9:13:08 PM DeanG wrote: Anyone can change their Moniker. Go to My Profile, My Information, and change it to whatever you want. 'Mother Hen' is an inside joke between Craig and myself. He's always accusing me of 'nagging' everyone. But since it annoys you -- I'll change it back right away! ---------------- Dean, Thank you. I feel much better now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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