ZAKO Posted May 28, 2004 Share Posted May 28, 2004 John .....I just had my organ dusted & cleaned works fine for the next 30 years. All kidding aside ...the idea is to go to a 2" driver with any horn you like. K401 can be had for $49.95 thats cheaper than filling your gas hog. JBL 2397 DSH horn. These can be made in any size (Smith horn) But to go full circle 2 10" 2123 JBL,s are great too. Any thing is better than pi$$ing through a 5/8" horn throat of a k400/401. DJK.. Did any one take pictures of ALLYCAT,s 401 modification? It would be nice for every one to see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shock-Late Posted May 28, 2004 Share Posted May 28, 2004 rather than modifying a K401 to try to fit abother pricey driver, I would recommend using another, better mid horn. IMHO the stock horn is not a very good horn, it projects sounds in your ears, especially is your room is not very spacious; and it sounds, well, "horny"... The biggest improvement I ever made to my Scalas was changing the HORNS. When done, the K55V doesn't sound that bad. Later you can always think about changing the drivers. but to me, playing (for example) a TAD driver trough a K401 horn is like feeding pigs with Beluga caviar. Just my humble opinion of course... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZAKO Posted May 28, 2004 Share Posted May 28, 2004 Pigs can be very dangerous they,l eat you alive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shock-Late Posted May 29, 2004 Share Posted May 29, 2004 one more reason not to keep pigs at home then Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djk Posted May 29, 2004 Share Posted May 29, 2004 " but to me, playing (for example) a TAD driver trough a K401 horn is like feeding pigs with Beluga caviar" You're killing me! Maron and I have friends that use TAD4001 on K400 horns w/2328 adaptors. When they get bored they try different horns. They still use the modified K400/2328. The discussion goes like this: "there has to be something that sound better than this K400, what about _" "of course I have a pair of _, I'll send them to you to try" "well you were right again, they do sound different, but I can't say that they sound better, and I would have to have new tops made too" "send them back" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Warren Posted May 29, 2004 Author Share Posted May 29, 2004 ---------------- On 5/22/2004 2:02:04 AM DeanG wrote: I was wondering if you were still running the JBL 10's in place of the squawker in your K-horns? ---------------- I put a webpage together that gives some info on that project. I still need to put the schematics for both the mid and tweeter networks on the page. Much of it has been posted on this board. http://home.comcast.net/~wooferboy/Page_3.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZAKO Posted May 29, 2004 Share Posted May 29, 2004 Shock.....The TAD 4001 or 4002 through a K401/2328 modified horn is a stunnung piece of work & is not diminished in any way. I believe the 4 inch beryllium diaphram/voicecoil coupled to a 5 slit phase plug and a megnetic circuit with flux of 228,000 maxwells and flux density of 20,000G (6lbs 10oz Alnico 5DG0) gives this driver its extreem definition. Using the K400/401 makes it possible to keep the complete unit under the Klipschorn top unit with out woodwork modification. I keep a K401/K55 on top of my Khorn for quick switching to show how poor that unit sounds. (jaws do drop eyeballs do pop) I use a electronic crossover with 6 amps. Pigs are smart animals but not as cunning as myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shock-Late Posted May 29, 2004 Share Posted May 29, 2004 djk, i think the K400 doesnt sound right for MY tastes. Its way too much "in yer face". sounds great with rock music and jazz. Less so with classical IMHO. that said, of course the K400 isnt THAT bad; if it was, Id never had bought a pair of Scalas. I used them stock for quite a while. Still think they sound WAY better with biradial horns; again, my own taste... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djk Posted May 29, 2004 Share Posted May 29, 2004 "djk, i think the K400 doesnt sound right for MY tastes. Its way too much "in yer face"." Gee, I explained all that. What part of 1/10 th the throat area causing 10X the distortion (20dB more!) didn't you understand? Not yet discussed was the tweeter crossover point. I lower it about 1/2 octave and the K400 beaming in the 6Khz region is gone. "Still think they sound WAY better with biradial horns; again, my own taste..." Bi-radial is a trademark of JBL, what JBL horns have you tried? All the 500hz horns made since 1980 sound like 'frying bacon' due to air overload in the slot. The EV SM120A is not a bi-radial horn. I think you like it for several reasons. It has 2.56X the throat area that the K400 does; while this increases distortion below 800hz due to the un-matched throat sizes, it reduces distortion above 800hz. Distortion is much more objectionable at higher frequencies. The dispersion is broader. The K400 has a real problem at 6Khz, the SM120 does not. You now have a dip in frequency response where your ear is most sensitive, around 3.5Khz. This is due to the dispersion of the SM120. A dip at this frequency can help reduce 'ear burn', especially on compressed program material (most CDs). Anyone wanting a new in the box pair of EV SM120A please contact me, I have a pair. I also have NOS pairs of 1824M and 1829 drivers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shock-Late Posted June 1, 2004 Share Posted June 1, 2004 DJK, sorry, dumb me, i always say "biradial" for "sectoral"... I know the SM120A is a sectoral horn. I m a bit sceptical about all JBL horns sounding like "frying bacon", tho. Does a Everest or a K2 sound like frying bacon? i never heard any of them, but for the price they were sold I hope they don t... lol that said, I dont really understand why the throat in the SM120 has 2,56X the throat area of the K400... since the K55 driver fits in both horns without the need of an adapter, arent the throats the same on both horns?? or is the throat on the K400 actually smaller than the K55 ouput? (dont remember, dont have any K400 left here...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djk Posted June 2, 2004 Share Posted June 2, 2004 "I m a bit sceptical about all JBL horns sounding like "frying bacon", tho." All bi-radial horns with the narrow slot, starting about 1980. "Does a Everest or a K2 sound like frying bacon?" The Everest has a long narrow slot, but not as bad as a K2. I have another horn with the same slot geometry as the K2, and it really fries. Nature of the beast. "i never heard any of them, but for the price they were sold I hope they don t... lol" I got my pair of Everest high frequency horns for about nothing, that in itself is some sort of statement. "that said, I dont really understand why the throat in the SM120 has 2,56X the throat area of the K400... since the K55 driver fits in both horns without the need of an adapter, arent the throats the same on both horns?? or is the throat on the K400 actually smaller than the K55 ouput? (dont remember, dont have any K400 left here...)" The horns both have the standard 1-3/8" 18TPI driver mounting. There is no standard throat opening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZAKO Posted June 3, 2004 Share Posted June 3, 2004 Ive heard the Everest and K2 no frying bacon heard . the K2 9500 And K2 9800 use different horns although both bi radial types . both to my ears do not exhibit any bacon sizzle. K2 9500 uses a 2" 475 driver. K2 9800 uses a 435be on a SonoGlass horn. No frying here. All very clean with good definition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mafuta Posted June 3, 2004 Share Posted June 3, 2004 Of course ,if you feed them fried bacon the fat will be in the fire and sizzzzzzzling sssoundds ssshall ssshear your eardrumssss (sssic) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Warren Posted June 3, 2004 Author Share Posted June 3, 2004 Christ, this post has gone off the deep end. Mafuta? Are you a sockpuppet? Perhaps you know Doris Wilsdorf?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZAKO Posted June 3, 2004 Share Posted June 3, 2004 John......You can send them to school...But they will only puke in the lockers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djk Posted June 4, 2004 Share Posted June 4, 2004 "Ive heard the Everest and K2 no frying bacon heard . the K2 9500 And K2 9800 use different horns although both bi radial types . both to my ears do not exhibit any bacon sizzle. K2 9500 uses a 2" 475 driver. K2 9800 uses a 435be on a SonoGlass horn. No frying here. All very clean with good definition." Its simply a function of how much SPL per cm you're running. Most of my stuff still gets used for live sound in large spaces, I hear stuff the avereage guy at home won't hear. Remember the movie 'Mambo Kings'? It received an Academy Award Nomination for its music. All the local theaters use JBL 4000 series THX speakers, dual 15" woofs and a 2" (2445) with either a 2380A of a 2360A. Massive bacon frying on the trumpets, it didn't even sound that loud. I have yet to listen to my Everest horns, too much stuff to play with. Everyone that sees them sitting there in the living room does a 'what the h3ll is that' number. Was thinking dual woofs, push-pull mounted at an angle so you can see the frame on the forward facing, and the magnet structure on the reversed woof. I'm trying to find a pair of clean 2470 to cross at 500hz instead of the 2425, or I have a new pair of EV 1829. May go with the 076 instead of the 077, just because it looks cool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZAKO Posted June 4, 2004 Share Posted June 4, 2004 The Everest horn or 4660....Ive been looking for a reasonable priced pair my self. Coupled to a 2234/2235 wooofer would be nice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elso Kwak Posted January 19, 2010 Share Posted January 19, 2010 If the Community M200 is so good because of the low compression ratio I decided to remove the phase plugs from my EV 1823Ms. A lot more pleasent to my ears still using old K400 horns. But I am already sold to the Jabos I am afraid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elso Kwak Posted January 19, 2010 Share Posted January 19, 2010 Pictures of removed phase plug Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elso Kwak Posted January 19, 2010 Share Posted January 19, 2010 more Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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