Exploring the world of tube amps.. a little advice needed!

[evilfrito]

Well everyone- not to say that I am disatisfied with my current solid state yamaha amp, which has <.015% thd, but I am interested in hearing my heritage speakers (heresy) hooked up with a tube amplifier. Could this really sound better than my yamaha solid state amp? What brands/specs should I be looking for if I choose to partake in the tube amp craze?

[dubai2000]

Well, that's a difficult question as every person perceives sound differently, has different listening habits, tastes etc.

Still, when I got into Heritage speakers, I dumped my ss McIntosh gear (C29/MC2105) relatively quickly. But this came about because after I while had become dissatisfied with the way music sounded in my living room.

Perhaps you find someone (perhaps another forum member in your area?) where you can actually listen to some tube gear (or are there dealers around where you could borrow an amp?).

Of modern brands I'd consider ASL (they offer an integrated amp using two KT88 which is meant to be really very good!). Some folks around here have chosen Cayin amps and seem to be quite happy, too.

Personally I'd also consider vintage amps - but be prepared to have it serviced by reliable persons (again this forum can help). Brands enjoyed are Scotts, Fishers and the Eico HF-81... a unit that can be very good indeed! - says a proud owner .

Wolfram

Note: this post has been edited not to start any flame wars...it seems I missed something happening recently.

[Deang]

Good post Wolfram. BTW, you didn't miss anything -- just the monthly event of a forum member wigging out.

As always, we need to know something about your budget, room size, musical tastes, and listening habits. The more we know, the better advice you'll get.

[leok]

evilfrito,

The distortion figure you quote for your ss amp is taken at almost full power (where you almost certainly never use the amp). Normal listening with Klipsch speakers generally requires about a Watt (I listen at about 1/8 Watt with an occasional 2 to 3 Watt peak). Distortion level of most ss amps at less than a Watt is terrible (that's why ss amps advertise distortion at rated output instead of 1 Watt). There's more, in that the type of distortion created by most ss amps is particularly harsh sounding.

Tube amps tend to perform best at lower power, and adequately to well at max power. As a result, tubes are operating in their sweet spot with Klipsch speakers, whereas ss amps are the most challenged.

There is a type of ss amp called "Class-A." It's low power distortion is much more reasonable than the normal "Class-A/B." The Sudgen amp is an example. There is also a "Mambo" by Music Hall (avail at audioadvisor.com).

Leo

[Colin]

Well, I dont think it is a difficult question. From what people say here at the Forum, it doesnt seem like Yammies are good matches for big ole horns. The THD of solid-state in particular is NOT a good match in my opinion, with the vintage solid-state harmon/kardon receivers being one notable exception, except that I am NOT sure why that is so.

The THD is NOT taken at full power, but at optimum power where the THD is the lowest. Solid-state receivers usually have twice as much power, except that the THD is higher and at peak power, THD really skyrockets.

Same is true with low power, the THD of solid-state amplifiers is higher than the middle of the power curve. Plus, tube amplifiers have soft clipping, which is NOT only easier to listen to, but whose waveforms also look more like a natural wave form (sorry, engineers, but no instrument makes square waves). Bottom line? HORNS LOVE TUBES. I would look for vintage integrated tube amplifiers on eBay for a couple of hundred, like those recommended by Forum frequent poster NOSvalves, and have them refurbished and upgraded by NOSvalves or somebody like him, for another hundred or so. In my opinion, these appear to sonic bargins when matched with big ole horns.

[NOSValves]

In my opinion it takes some serious SS cash to get even close to the tube sound with Klipsch heritage speakers ! But what path you should take is really something that will take more reading and even better auditioning other peoples gear if possible.

Craig

[evilfrito]

Auditioning is definitely going to be my first step here. I live in madison, wi and there isn't an incredible amount of quality audio shops around.. and I have no chance in bumming an old tube amp of a buddy because that is greek to them. I have a rather small apartment, would be willing to drop 200-400 bucks on a new amp (if i happen to like the sound of it more than my current ss), and like to listen to classic rock stuff , blues, miles davis, classical, electronic, talking heads, you name it. It seems my yamaha amp would fit better in my father's stereo.. his jbl speakers are much less efficient then my heresy's and are a little underpowered in his ht setup. Anyways- thanks for the heads up, I'm gonna have a look around:)

[Lurch]

$200-400 isn't much of a budget for a tube amp. That may get you an older, used amp, but these invariably need quite a bit of TLC to make them usable on a daily basis. You're probably looking at an old, low-powered integrated.

The best advice I can give you is to do your research, if you're getting an older amp. Don't make any impatient decisions. You have to recognize if something has been modified and why. You should also become aware of what tubes are in production and which ones will set you back a considerable amount. If you buy a relatively obscure product, there will be less info to help you in this quest.

Personally, in this price range, I'd look at the Heathkit W-4Ms or an Eico HF-81 integrated. The tubes are readily available and cheap. Lots of info out there on both and decent sound for comparatively little money. Just be prepared to fully refurbish them!!!!

Jeff

[Royster]

Evil,

I am in Appleton. I have a complete tube system (see profile) You are more than happy to stop in a check out tubes! We also have a great retailer here (Sound World), they have several CJ pieces on the used shelf currently, along with a AR LS2 ($400). If I can help in any way please let me know,

Fellow Cheesefile,

Roy Ramsey

[wrench_peddler]

Hey Royster, I checked out your profile and I may have missed something. Could be I don't know what I am looking at, but, wouldn't your system sound better if you had speakers?

[3dzapper]

Rick

[evilfrito]

well, I will have to check that place in appleton out! I'd have the time to drop by this summer after my final exams. I have a couple of weeks to relax before the summer job/class kicks in- it would be nice to finally hear some tubes..