MY EXPERIENCE WITH A TUBE TECH

doctorcilantro · May 3, 2004

I picked up a Sherwood S-5000 a while back from a seller down south. While it came with a warranty and was worked on just enough to make it safe, but eventually I decided to have it looked at by a dedicated tube tech. So, I posted to the Klipsch forum, requesting any information on techs who could do the work. A few people replied to my post, and one or two emailed me. I was told via email that NOSValves and Ryan Inman do work for people and Ryan was "quicker, cheaper, and closer to you". I contacted Ryan and told him that this was my first tube amp and, besides listening, and I wanted to use the integrated for archiving vinyl to my computer. I made clear I wanted the phono stage and the amp itself to sound as quiet and good as possible. Ryan said there were two things he could do; rebuild the amp the newer parts or use vintage parts. Being a newbie I simply re-iterated my need for good sound, and I also highlighted how important a quality phono stage was going to be to me, and he suggested that using older parts would give it a better more "authentic" sound.

I mailed the amp to Ryan and was soon informed that some tubes were dead and replaced, the work was done, and I owed him 240$. I had purchased this amp for 100$. It was in working condition when I received it, and the seller has told me they had done enough to get it to work and be safe. I sent it off thinking it could only get better by having some "dedicated" work done to it for my specific uses. Being a newb, I was a little shocked by the 240$, but I just took it in stride. I had had a Sansui 6060 worked on a few years back and the bill was 150$ so I just rationalized the cost because this was tube gear, it was complicated, etc. Ryan said he would ship when he received my check. Ryan had made mention of his interest in the S-5000 manual earlier, which I was to receive from an Ebay seller. I told him I would mail it to him with the check and he could copy it and send it back with the amp or thereafter.

I got the amp back and was happy; fast service! Well, I turned it on and nothing. I checked the tubes. All were securely in place. I emailed Ryan and he thought a cap. wire had come loose. I tried the amp again later and it powered up. I got some hissy rumbling on power up, actually it was a static sound, but loud and rumbling. I turned the amp off and got some noise after power down; the same hissy rumbling and a pop or two. Later that day...no power. I checked the tubes again. All were in place. Still no power. I finally tracked it down to the small fuse in back. It was blown and kept blowing as I replaced it about 4 times. Finally, it just worked. Then I notice as I touched a mixer and the Sherwood at the same time I was getting a 120v tingle.

I told Ryan and he suggested reversing the plug's polarity. That didn't work. He advised sending it back so he could remove the cap that couples the line voltage to the chassis. "I didn't know it would cause you so many problems" "You paid me 240$ for a rebuild and I want you to be 100% content with it"

Frustrated but happy for his support, I agreed, and sent the amp back. The cap was removed and I got the amp back again. I hooked it up. I have a DJ mixer that was running it's tape out to the Sherwood AUX in. At this point, nothing in my audio chain was earth grounded as per Ryans recommendation. Now, I had no 120v tingle. I was very happy. My wife and I were listening to something. I decided to turn the amp off to move something. When I did the mixer VU lit up into the red all the way and stayed there until I could scramble and get to its power button. Freaked, I turn everything back on. NOTHING. I waited cautiously, tried a cd, and nothing at all. I start checking tubes with a Sencore TC-2 and find that the two 12AX7's that replaced my, according to Ryan, bad amperex bugle boys have blown. Yes, blown. Clouded with white, they read totally dead on the Sencore. The tubes Ryan put in were GE 12AX7's.....well I don't honestly know what they are they could be something else like 5751s for all I know (read on).

I replaced the tubes with some RCA's I had laying around. Talk to Ryan via email and he suggests that I had a massive ground loop that somehow blew the preamp tubes. Hmmmmm....okay. Well, I ask, is everything okay. It sounded okay but I was very worried; totally concerned about the safety of operation of the amp. Ryan leveled with me and said if it had been his amp it would be back on the bench ASAP. I groan while reading his email and decide okay here we go again.

I send it back. But before I did I had tested ALL the tubes in it. One of the Sherwood 7199's showed grid leakage into the bad range. Ryan commented that the TC-2 I was using was probably incorrectly calibrated. Well, I borrowed it from the United States Coast Guard Electronics Support Detachment, and I just told him to check them out. He mentioned I hope theyre not bad because they cost a lot.

I get the amp back again with a clean bill of health from Ryan. Tubes okay, caps okay, etc. all is good. But, I still got pops when I turn off components and loud pops when turning the amp off itself. Then I noticed I was getting lots of hiss from my speakers. Something doesnt feel right and I mention this to Ryan. I emailed him about three times in a week about the hiss and how I had some small amount of noise when my computer was plugged in. I wasnt clear enough that my PC was NOT connected in the chain but just plugged in on another outlet in the same room. At this point I was just mentioning all the little things I was observing and keep in mind I understood this is not a separate, and its old, its never going to be 100% quiet because of its nature, but I was trying to figure out this hiss as it seemed excessive to me. Ryan highlighted this point to me and agreed with some suggestions I had from another tech like putting a capacitor into an outlet near the amp. But he never made any real effort to diagnose what was going on or ask me just how loud the hiss was. I just did feel like I was getting Ryans full attention; one could argue I just wasnt getting the answers I wanted to hear, but it was just a feeling for me. I was starting to wish I had sent the amp to a tech I know in Florida. So, I started a thread in the Klipsch forum and got many responses that agreed it seemed the amp was pretty loud, hissing hard at 2:00 Now this point is arguable and hasnt been resolved as of yet. At this point on the dial the amp is being pushed pretty hard so hiss is could be expected. Others disagreed. Regardless, this led me to have the amp checked by another technician. The results of the examination revealed the following.

-Tape was left on wiring.

-The Sherwood 7199s were both bad.

-The power switch was bad; the amp was shooting sparks inside.

-The hum pot was half dead and needed a simple cleaning.

-The output tubes were 6N14N not 6N14N-EB

-(S-5000 has 400+ plate voltage).

-The total cost of parts: 35$

-Estimated time worked on the amp: 3 hrs. max

Ryan Inman never told me what was actually done to the amp. Ryan Inman did the work and sent the bill afterwards. The work did not address my needs (or my options) that I made very clear. The work of Ryan Inman did not reflect the cost of repair. As of today I have still not received my manual from Ryan Inman although I have been told repeatedly that it was mailed. I do not remember what output tubes were originally in the amp when I got it. I find it suspicious that the replacement GE tubes that Ryan put in were the two that blew. At the time of this writing they are in my closet at home, and I plan to investigate what type they are. I have also contacted the originally seller to find out if the orange drops were already in the amp when I purchased it. Ryan was given full artistic control of the rebuild; I have since learned how expensive rebuilds can be, and the decisions that can be made regarding various resistors, etc. of differing costs. I was never asked, How much should I put into the phono section or I could replace these resistors if your really picky etc. I made Ryan Inman aware of my impression of his work and I requested 100$ back from him which I thought was an extremely reasonable request considering what was done and NOT done to the S-5000. I received a very aggressive email from him denying and questioning the capability of new technician Youre repair man is an idiot. Pictures were taken to document what was found after the amp was returned by Ryan Inman and will be posted shortly. I do not expect to see any type of apology or refund from Ryan Inman. My only hope now is that newbies to tube audio not be taken advantage of as I was. I basically flipped a coin, Ryan was closer and cheaper supposedly, and I trusted the comments of experienced audio enthusiasts on this forum. I truly wonder if any people who recommend Mr. Inman have EVER had him pretend to work on their gear. I have enjoyed this forum for the short time I have been a member. With all the recent discussion regarding censorship I understand that this really isnt a public forum; its Klipschs forum, and that makes sense to me. I have learned a lot since I arrived and I will continue to contribute in a positive way. I hope people realize that I am not being vindictive. Yes, I feel burned. Am I angry, of course. I am young and starting a family; the money I wasted on Ryans work was a big deal for us. I put aside money with patience and slowly have built myself a system that satisfies me. I am not going to let this eat me alive, nor do I expect any real resolution. This post is the cathartic summary of my observations, experiences, anger, and frustrations..with Ryan Inman. I know there must be others who have had similar dealings with Ryan Inman, I suggest you come forward and relate those experiences.

Best regards,

Jonathan Catuccio aka Doctor Cilantro

Piranha · May 3, 2004

I am sorry to hear all of this. But it's nice to know you've finally got it all straightened out. Enjoy the music!

garymd · May 3, 2004

Best of luck. I hope it all works out and you end up with the sound you're hoping for. I grew up with a similiar model in my home. Let us know how it all turns out.

Ryan C Inman · May 3, 2004

Jonathan,

I am very sorry to hear that you are unsatisified with my work. Over the years, I've received a few complaints, they are unavoidable in a business dedicated to the repair of "obsolete", 40+ year old tube electronics. I do not know the history of the equipment, how it was treated, stored, etc. There is never a 100% guarantee that tube equipment of this nature will not break down. There is not a 100% guarantee that the owner will operate it correctly, and with associated equipment that is compatable.

Your S-5000 is in fairly poor overall condition. There is a fair amount of rust, and someone had attempted to modify the power supply in the past. It barely worked when I received it. I had the task of removing these modifications, and when the work was completed, the S-5000 met all of its operating specifications, including those for S/N ratio and distortion.

I offer a two-year warranty on all of my work. I encourage anyone unsatisfied with my work to take advantage of it. You notified me that you sent the S-5000 to another technician, you did not take advantage of my warranty, so the problem is now out of my hands.

The $240 price reflects what type of condition the Sherwood was in upon arrival. It was severely modified. Out of that $240, you failed to mention that I also payed the return shipping. Below is a list of parts and prices for your S-5000:

40-20-20-20 uF 500V Lytic: $15.95

30-30 uF 500V Lytic: $8.95

(4) 0.68 uF 600V Sprague: $4.60

20 uF 450V Atom Lytic: $4.60

(4) 6N14N Russian Tube: $25

(1) 500 mA Selenium Rect: $5.00

Return Shipping: $16

Return Shipping 2nd: $16

Total: $96.10

I made $143.90 of off this particular rebuild.

The power switch was 100% operational when the amplifier was here both times, it was not shooting sparks, which I believe to be a fabrication on your part. I would never allow an amplifier to leave my facility in that condition.

The DC Balance pot consists of two ganged pots, and feeds the output tube grids. If it were defective, one channel's tubes would've been destroyed by an overcurrent situation (loss of bias). That did not occur, so the "hum" null pot was operational.

The noise problems that you experienced can be traced back to your grounded equipment. You introduced feedback loops into the Sherwood. You received a shock because after the initial rebuild, the line coupling capacitor was intact. The S-5000 was NOT designed to be run with grounded equipment. To use grounded equipment could be dangerous, depending upon which way the S-5000 line cord is polarized in respect to your wall outlet.

I expressly warned you NOT to run grounded equipment with the S-5000. You failed to heed my warning, and you destroyed your mixer, not my problem.

You attempted to run equipment that was incompatable with the S-5000, and you caused the problem. I agreed to remove the line capacitor from the Sherwood (which I did) to minimize the "shock effect" only (which it did). This wasn't a guarantee that you could continue to run grounded equipment with the Sherwood.

You probably assume that my repair work was faulty. I proved that it wasn't when you shipped it back the second time. It was still 100% operational and meeting all published specs.

You probably assume that this new tech will cure all of your problems, he won't. There is not a problem with the Sherwood, my work, or your grounded equipment. There is a problem combining them together, they are not compatable. When you receive the S-5000 back from your technician and attempt to run the same equipment, you'll encounter the same problems as before.

You need to run the S-5000 with the correct type of equipment. It was designed during an era where polarized and grounded equipment was speciality, it was uncommon. It was never intended to be run with today's high-tech solid-state DJ electronics. It was primarily designed to be run with a Sherwood tuner, a tube type tape recorder, and a vintage turntable. You are expecting too much from the S-5000, and I would suggest using a more modern, solid-state amplifier for your application.

Regards,

Ryan C. Inman

Piranha · May 3, 2004

This is not very good PR in my opinion. This is just a suggestion, but you may want to rethink your response here.

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On 5/3/2004 10:24:07 PM Ryan C Inman wrote: