jazman Posted May 31, 2004 Share Posted May 31, 2004 Since before the purchase of my VPI Scout with JMW 9 arm, I've had the itch to experience a Low Output Moving hCoil cartridge playing my collection of vinyl. Budget constraints have always been an issue. For most of us, to employ a LOMC also requires the addition of some type of step up device. More $$$. I've lived with the Clearaudio Arum Alpha MM cartridge since the purchase of the Scout. In the meantime, I had lusted for the highly regarded Clearaudio Virtuosso Wood($750 retail) as my expected stepping stone into the LOMC world. Finally, over the last couple of months, I have had the opportunity to put together the pieces of my LOMC puzzle and stay within my budget. First enters a legendary Denon DL103D LOMC, 0.25mV, for sale USED with low hours according to the seller. I was first to contact him and a deal was quickly agreed upon. Now I need a step up device. I had initially considered putting together a kit, and sent out feelers for who could give me good advice. Next enters a USED step up transformer based on a pair of Tamura TKW-27 trannies which appears in an auction. I was able to get this unit for about a $20 premium over the cost of the trannies new purchase price. This unit included a set of already installed interconnects from it's output to a phono section, another savings. The agonizing part of this purchase was waiting for it to arrive from the Canadian seller, and the delay of clearing Canadian customs. Well, I finally installed the Denon DL103D yesterday. I had been dreading what I feared would be a setup nightmare. It turned out to be less an ordeal than I envisioned. Step up trannie worked perfect. Spent most of the afternoon yesterday trying to get things sounding best I could. The VPI tonearm setup jig makes getting the cartridge overhang and mounting location a piece of cake. I played with many different stylus pressure settings and the arm VTA. I made no azmuth adjustments. The Denon setup literature said the optimum tacking force was 1.5. I have mine currently set at approx 1.75-1.80 grms. The most time is spent in getting the VTA and best tracking force settled. I used the Shure gauge, but really see the benefit of a digital gauge for more precise settings. What do I think? A VERY, VERY, good upgrade from my Clearaudio Arum Alpha MM. More liquid sound, very good detail, a lot more up top and midrange. Broader soundstage. After spending part of the late afternoon and evening yesterday at a barbeque and picnic, I played vinyl until 2:30 AM this morning and I'm back at it again. I think I now understand the reasons to go with a LOMC. I've been playing a lot of instrumental Jazz, but I've also explored male vocals of Joe Williams, Johnny Hartman. Female vocals of Betty Carter, Shirley Horn, Marlena Shaw. Pop female vocals by Anita Baker, Sade. This is fun! The sensitivity of this cartridge has also reminded me to get the VPI 16.5 in service for LPs that have not been cleaned with it and Disc Doctor fluid and brushes. I read a May 25th Asylum post that Denon is possibly discontinuing the 103 line. That would be a shame. This DL103D has to be one hell of a bargain LOMC and I see why it is highly recommended by Mr. Salvatore. I'm glad I did not hesitate to go after this one when it popped up. Well, that's it. I've implemented my LOMC set up, and all done for less than $500. I could not be more pleased with the result. As my son would say. It's all good! Klipsch out. PS. Edit of equipment list will soon follow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tillmbil Posted May 31, 2004 Share Posted May 31, 2004 Glad it hear it Jazzman. It never ceases to amaze me the non stop tweaks of this hobby. Just when you think you got it all, some different idea comes along you just have to try. I finally got my equipment lined up so now I am devoting my time to buyibg tubes. Oh Yeah, tube rolling on the way. NOrah Jones new release in a bluenote Album is incredible by the way. Not sure it is your taste but I love it. I also have two Sade albums, so it should be something you would like. Happy listening, and get some sleep would ya Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarryC Posted May 31, 2004 Share Posted May 31, 2004 ---------------- ...I had lusted for the highly regarded Clearaudio Virtuosso Wood($750 retail) as my expected stepping stone into the LOMC world. ---------------- Great outcome, Jazman! I don't know about others' opinions, but the higher-line Clearaudio MC carts I tried were too bright for me, and I heard too much record scratch. I think you came out very well. Happy listening! Larry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garymd Posted May 31, 2004 Share Posted May 31, 2004 Jazman, I opted for the high output MC with my VPI (Benz Glider, 2.5). I'll have it set up within a couple days. To date, I've been using a V15 and a Garrott P-77 so I'm very anxious to hear the MC. I didn't want to buy a step-up transformer which is why I went with the high output. Thanks for posting your findings. I hope to get some good results even though it's a higher output cart. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik Mandaville Posted May 31, 2004 Share Posted May 31, 2004 Jazman: Please check your email. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazman Posted May 31, 2004 Author Share Posted May 31, 2004 ---------------- On 5/31/2004 6:44:58 PM larryclare wrote: ---------------- ...I had lusted for the highly regarded Clearaudio Virtuosso Wood($750 retail) as my expected stepping stone into the LOMC world. ---------------- Great outcome, Jazman! I don't know about others' opinions, but the higher-line Clearaudio MC carts I tried were too bright for me, and I heard too much record scratch. I think you came out very well. Happy listening! Larry ---------------- Larry, The Viirtuosso Wood is a MM design and very good by all accounts I've ever read and TBabb has one that he loves. The Clearaudio LOMC's are all more than I could afford so they were eliminated not on merit, but price. Unfortunately, record scratch, if on the record becomes part of the playback, and a LOMC is generally going to report it to you. Klipsch out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garymd Posted May 31, 2004 Share Posted May 31, 2004 Jazman, The difference is (Larry pointed this out to me during my cart search) that the scratches, while noticable, seem to be separate from the music. Hard to notice unless you're listening for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazman Posted May 31, 2004 Author Share Posted May 31, 2004 ---------------- On 5/31/2004 6:46:43 PM garymd wrote: Jazman, I opted for the high output MC with my VPI (Benz Glider, 2.5). I'll have it set up within a couple days. To date, I've been using a V15 and a Garrott P-77 so I'm very anxious to hear the MC. I didn't want to buy a step-up transformer which is why I went with the high output. Thanks for posting your findings. I hope to get some good results even though it's a higher output cart. ---------------- Gary, I never read the outcome of your TT search. Did you order a Scout, or did you purchase the VPI 19 that was offered by a forum member? I owned a V15 and several other Shure cartridges, but not a Garrott. I think the 103D out performs the Shure V15. I have no first hand experience with the Glider, HOMC or LOMC. I hope you like it. BTW, quality step up transformers can be bought is kit form for under $300. It's usually the LOMC cartridge cost that kicks your buns. You generally pay for the higher performance and cost of production. Another option suggested by Van den Hul is to buy an old top of the line LOMC for dirt cheap and have it rebuilt. Ultimately cheaper than buying a current production top of the line LOMC which can run in the thousands. Klipsch out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarryC Posted May 31, 2004 Share Posted May 31, 2004 Gary, with a good cart-TT-TA setup, that is, so it seems to me. I was referring to a couple of kilobuck low-to-medium-output models of Clearaudio MCs, which I thought were both brighter and scratchier than other carts I'd heard. That's why I think Jazman's score was especially good. Jazman, sorry, I hadn't realized you were referring to an MM Clearaudio. Larry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy Landau Posted May 31, 2004 Share Posted May 31, 2004 I've installed my new to me (otherwise, used with very low hours) DL103, yesterday too. I've been playing with VTA and cartridge loading resistors. So far, I'm quite impressed by the sound that can be achieved with such a small outlay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garymd Posted May 31, 2004 Share Posted May 31, 2004 Jazman, I cancelled my order for the scout/JMW when Josh posted his HW19 MkIV for sale. It had the Aries platter which I really like and some other nice upgrades. There is of course some downside vs the scout (seperate motor and the JMW arm for starters) but I saved a lot of cash and went with the benz which cost me more than the table. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazman Posted June 1, 2004 Author Share Posted June 1, 2004 ---------------- On 5/31/2004 8:54:15 PM larryclare wrote: Gary, with a good cart-TT-TA setup, that is, so it seems to me. I was referring to a couple of kilobuck low-to-medium-output models of Clearaudio MCs, which I thought were both brighter and scratchier than other carts I'd heard. That's why I think Jazman's score was especially good. Jazman, sorry, I hadn't realized you were referring to an MM Clearaudio. Larry ---------------- Larry, The least expensive current production Clearaudio moving coil cartridge I could find was their Sigma Wood, with .6mV output, at a price of $1,200 new, $600-$700 used. Knocked me right out of the Clearaudio MC park. Gary, The HW19 MkIV with the Aires platter is a good TT with lots of upgrade options from VPI if you get the urge. Which arm came with it? Have fun! Klipsch out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubai2000 Posted June 1, 2004 Share Posted June 1, 2004 Jazman, congrats on your new cartridge/step up combo. I own quite a good phone preamp (IMO) that includes the MC option.... BUT this is a ss device (nothing wrong with that as such ) and I'd love to try a tube phonostage. The only problem: getting a step up device that is not extroaordinarily expensive. So if there is any suggestion of where to look, I'd really appreciate it. Thanks in advance. Wolfram Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxg Posted June 1, 2004 Share Posted June 1, 2004 Edmund, Congrats on the Denon 103 - the best bargain in this insane analogue world of ours. Old Salvadore may be as mad as a march hare but he knows his cartridges and he is right on the money on this one - for me. As I own the Clearaudio Virtuoso 2 and have listened long hours to the Denon I can tell you, despite the price differential, the Denon is a clear (audio?) winner in my book. I have just given my Virtuoso to Tony for him to play with (he picked up a Systemdeck for a song and it will sit on his modded RB250 for a while). I don't doubt he will throw it back my way soon!! (His previous cart was the Shelter 901 - this is not going to be good and I expect him to settle with a 103 when he scratches some $$ together for a phono stage). Right now he is planning to use my old Project phono box - its great for MM but not for MC by any stretch... As it happens I regard the Denon as one of the more forgiving carts when it comes to vinyl in poor condition, whilst the Clearaudio is about as fussy as I have found. The tracking weight you have selected sounds about right - most people I know run it around 1.8 grammes. 1.5 is a bit optimistic generally - expect to loose some bass at that weight (we did). Other than that the only thing I would suggest it taking a look at some all in one phono stages with high enough gain for your Denon. Bascially I work on the rule that the lower the output of the cart the more important the phono stage. Step-ups rarely seem to produce the goods like a high gain all in one stage (in my limited experience). This is obviously not an urgent need - but I guess that now you are into LOMC you will probably stay there - and a good unit is a sound investment in the future. FWIW I have found that the Acoustic Signature Tango unit is as flexible and sonically neutral as any unit that can be found near its price range: Capacitance - 50 to 300 mF in 50 mF steps (100 best for the Denon) Impedance - 10 to 1000 ohms - various settings (10, 47 (mm only), 50, 100, 1000) - again 100 best for the Denon. Gain - MC - 65 dB/ MM - 48(? from memory) Price over here is around 600 euros (700 bucks). I dont know what they sell for over there - judging by your cartridge prices it could be a lot more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazman Posted June 1, 2004 Author Share Posted June 1, 2004 Wolfam, Prices for step up transformers are all over the map. Have you checked what it would cost to add LOMC fuctionality to your present preamp? If you are into kits, this one came highly recommended. http://hometown.aol.com/kevinc927/index.html About $235. If you want to go with a simple, inexpensive add on device, for $109, Denon makes this; http://www.audiocubes2.com/product_info.php?manufacturers_id=14&products_id=264&osCsid=ebe3d40ba0b1caad5f135ad36b968ea4 If you want to go with a completely tubed phono section, Sumiko has a new unit available for $549 at the Needle Doctor for both MM and LOMC in one box; http://www.needledoctor.com/s.nl/c.ACCT106601/sc.2/category.401/it.A/id.2305/.f Other step up devices can be found on various internet sites with prices gauged by the quality of the transformers employed in them(Telefunken, Siemans, Tamura, etc.) You will also need to make sure the device you are buying has sufficient signal boost for the cartirdge you are going to use. It can be quite confusing, but it is eventually comprehendable. Once you have made a LOMC cartridge selection, then look for the correct step up device. It only took me 2 years to put it all together, because I generally over research, over think, and then over plan my options. Klipsch out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazman Posted June 1, 2004 Author Share Posted June 1, 2004 Max, Thanks. I'm sure you know Denon makes a slew of 103 variants. I purchased their 103D, with the lighter weight, cream colored body. The Tamura TKW 27 step up transformers are very high quality units and integrates nicely with my phono stage. I may eventually move to an all in one phono pre, but the Tamura was less than $200. I found as you suggested, that some bass weight and tracking on some LPs suffered with the tracking set at 1.5 grams, so I'm staying about 1.8 for now. I'm really enjoying the sound of this setup. Klipsch out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garymd Posted June 1, 2004 Share Posted June 1, 2004 ---------------- On 6/1/2004 2:29:15 AM jazman wrote: Gary, The HW19 MkIV with the Aires platter is a good TT with lots of upgrade options from VPI if you get the urge. Which arm came with it? Have fun! Klipsch out. ---------------- Audioquest PT-6. Picking it up at lunch today. The arm may be my first upgrade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted June 1, 2004 Share Posted June 1, 2004 Gary, What V15 do you have and are you going to sell it or is it on your table upstairs ? Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garymd Posted June 1, 2004 Share Posted June 1, 2004 Craig, It's on my upstairs table. It's a new MkV with a brand new stylus. I am going to sell my Garrott P-77 if anyone is interested. Under 75 hours. Very nice MM cart, retails for $500. $100 to anyone interested. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy Landau Posted June 1, 2004 Share Posted June 1, 2004 Max, The recommended load for the Denon 103 is >100 ohm. How much more? good question. Most people use 100 ohm but I found the 100 ohm load to be too smooth and lifeless. 1Kohm works best in my system and gives the right balance to my ears. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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