Deang Posted June 19, 2004 Share Posted June 19, 2004 You're right. No doubt -- but I want peace. I have to be at work at 4, and I'm going to be in front of a monitor until midnight anyways. Kelly sent me a PM last night. The message was not cloaked in complex verbiage. I wanted him to call me, but he didn't. I'm still stinging from two years of B.S., and I want an end to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy Landau Posted June 19, 2004 Share Posted June 19, 2004 Any $500 phono preamp recommendations? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leok Posted June 19, 2004 Share Posted June 19, 2004 I find the Creek OBH-8SE to ba a good sounding MM phono preamp. Circuitry is all discrete Class-A ss with passive filtering. It's a good idea to break it in, driving it just to clipping with a pink noise generator (but that's probably true of all phono preamps). Price is about $350. Leo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted June 19, 2004 Share Posted June 19, 2004 I guess working out a truce does require a certain amount of intestinal fortitude. These used to be popular.$400 in kit form, $600 built. http://www.audioelectronicsupply.com/cgi/view_services.cgi?request=detail&dept_id=3&aisle_id=32&prod_num=PH-1_KIT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted June 19, 2004 Share Posted June 19, 2004 I swear the truce thing has been done to death. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anarchist Posted June 19, 2004 Share Posted June 19, 2004 On 6/19/2004 12:23:54 PM AK-4 wrote: On the whole, I agee with Clipped and Anarchist. You had me there Dean so I just got rid of the rest of it. I guess if you call someone "an idiot", it's a personal attack -- but if you shroud the insult using a host of literary devices and complex verbiage -- "it's funnier than hell". Since it is me you quote, let me provide the short answer. I do prefer witty insults to low-brow insults. NOS gave as good as he got however. I admit sometimes even the low-brow ones are comedic. If some of the SET folks want to enjoy unmolested discussions, they should quit making their recommendations in such a way that fosters a spirit of exclusivity... This works both ways and is often the crux of the problem - regardless of the topic. Notice that Leo, Erik, and some others NEVER get trouble from us. I wonder why? Me too! The reality is there are certain personalities here who don't like each other, whether the slights were real or perceived. Anarchist, Amy probably isn't around -- so you moderate. You don't want me moderating. I believe in self-policing. Allow the forum members to ridicule the offender into a new 'attitude'. If after a time, the person continues to sustain the name calling and insults for the sake of insults. You ban them. Period. None of this "I am taking that toy away because you children always fight over it." The kids will be toyless. You fight, I beat you over the head. All that said, I looked at the Creek and the AES. The reviews I saw favored the Hagerman over these guys. Also some reviews of the Gran this, Gran that, some Mono something or another. The Hagerman keeps earning praise. I think I am going to build it and then play with upgrading it. I want equipment that only a few here, if any, have; that way I can say definitively my stuff is the best and the rest of you don't know squat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clipped and Shorn Posted June 19, 2004 Share Posted June 19, 2004 "I want equipment that only a few here, if any, have; that way I can say definitively my stuff is the best and the rest of you don't know squat. " There used to be someone here who also liked this stance, so even if you went out of your way to find what he had, the reply would always come back, yes, but I upgraded my volume control., and you cannot get those anymore, or they don't make the iron anymore, or mine works better because it has been running continuously for four years and has finally warmed up and is really broken in. So no matter what you did, you would still be behind by so many years of break in or warm up etc. etc. I was a hoot. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "This perpetual complaining about the state of the Forum is getting old. Reminds me of junior high students whining about school rules. C&S: Amy has made it clear repeatedly that politics is not welcome here. Your insistence on bringing it up all the time, albeit now in a philosophical way, shows a lack of respect." Everything in the above statement is political and polarized. To not see this is also political and is related to the form of "political" denial which was mentioned in my original post. Denial is a human problem. It is the same psychological mechanism which makes you think your Audio system sounds great even when it does not because you have so much "invested" in it. It is related to other forms of subjectivity which keeps humans at war with other humans (seen as inherently evil without cause) and sometimes with themselves. How we understand the very psyche of said humans is, like everything else, you guessed it, political. Klipsch sales figures are related. OK, to proceed, please understand that the ideas to be developed apply equally to Audio and/or war, Klipsch speakers, audio components generally, and the state of education in America etc. The root of ignorance is tied to this "denial" mechanism. The best defense for one's denial is to equate "apples" and the "oranges", the Klipsch and the Bose, as in "I am really tired of you Klipsch owners always making us Bose owners out to be stupid or something. Klipsch owners are elitists. They don't realize that Klipsch is not superior, it is just your opinion, and there are way more of us Bose owners. And we want Bose taught in our schools as an alternative. The Truth of Klipsch is relative and has never been proven, it is just another theory, and I can go back in history and find just as much evidence that says Bose is as good as Klipsch, besides there are more of us Bose fans than you Klipsch fans, so there." Belief is as good as Knowledge. Apples are as good as Pencils and so forth. The denial mechanism is supported by a lack of understanding of the "process of science", or any process devised to define, understand, measure , and/or utilize "truth" for what it is worth at a particular moment in time, eg. to not understand what a "process" is, as opposed to an absolute (tragically seeming worthy of war) belief. What we have today (in the Klipsch=Bose world), is the "position" which "believes" that science itself (or whatever process is used to deduce useable knowledge), is somehow now suspect because certain parties have decided to cast it into the pit along with various other things which get in the way of their vested (invested) hidden interests. In other words, in the name of "fairness" science and non-science are given equal weight. Enlightenment and Ignorance are now equal in our great democracy and the sooner we can sell this to the rest of the world the better. We see that it is a very hard sell, but we will not give up, and we will continue the fight to bring Bose speakers to the world as if they were Klipsch. Bose died for our sins. or something like that..... hey.....this "moderation" thing has actually spurred me on.....now ain't that a *****.... C&S you might say, well Klipsch is a way taller speaker than Bose, but I would say all is fair in height, 9' 11" homebrew speaker towers are even the same........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrot Posted June 19, 2004 Share Posted June 19, 2004 ---------------- On 6/19/2004 3:07:28 PM Clipped and Shorn wrote: Everything . . . ---------------- I do believe you are overintellectualizing a simple matter. To repeat what Amy said, "I'm not backing down from my position, so honestely, if you don't like it, then I thank you for your past constructive contributions, and I wish you luck in the future. I think it's a shame you can't adjust, and some personalities will be missed." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazman Posted June 19, 2004 Share Posted June 19, 2004 "If some of the SET folks want to enjoy unmolested discussions, they should quit making their recommendations in such a way that fosters a spirit of exclusivity, and in such a way that doesn't infer these devices are the most transparent, involving, musical devices ever to grace the planet -- and anyone who can't hear it -- are just deaf and dumb mutes. You know, we didn't start this "war", they did " Horsepucky!!!!!! Dean, It's very revealing that you have finally admitted to your "War" with respect to low powered SET. You and your associates past actions are now clear. Next, I guess is low powered gaincards. You're full of it to infer that anyone has ever fostered a spirit of exclusivity when it comes to SET amps. This is pure bull from you. These types of parnoid or inferiority fear rantings are part of the problem. I mentioned the following in another post. Did you bother to hit the home page from the vintage amp post? If not, go back and check it out. The survey there seemed to indicate that the majority of people voted the best sound was "Single ended". Are you going to claim that people who have nothing to do with your paranoia, or this forum, are also plotting against you? Why do you object to attirbutes long associated with good single ended design being voiced? Leave this forum and find other internet postings will describe many of the things you are so offended by, posted in abundance. One or two instances praising SET amps could be easily discounted. The numbers are just too great for that. If an individual wishes to explore the world of SET amplification, that is their right!! Yet, you and your associates continue with attemps to interfere with any exchange of SET information. What are you afraid of? If it's bad advice, or even false information, the individuals will come back and say so. All members of the forum will then know so. You, Parrot, NOSValves, or anyone else with such a fragile psyche needs to simply butt out. Klipsch out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted June 19, 2004 Share Posted June 19, 2004 Whatever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chops Posted June 19, 2004 Share Posted June 19, 2004 SCORE!!!! That was for Jaz BTW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted June 19, 2004 Share Posted June 19, 2004 Yes, in the game of Horsepucky, he scored. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tubelover Posted June 19, 2004 Share Posted June 19, 2004 ---------------- On 6/19/2004 6:40:06 PM jazman wrote: "If some of the SET folks want to enjoy unmolested discussions, they should quit making their recommendations in such a way that fosters a spirit of exclusivity, and in such a way that doesn't infer these devices are the most transparent, involving, musical devices ever to grace the planet -- and anyone who can't hear it -- are just deaf and dumb mutes. You know, we didn't start this "war", they did " Horsepucky!!!!!! Dean, It's very revealing that you have finally admitted to your "War" with respect to low powered SET. You and your associates past actions are now clear. Next, I guess is low powered gaincards. You're full of it to infer that anyone has ever fostered a spirit of exclusivity when it comes to SET amps. This is pure bull from you. These types of parnoid or inferiority fear rantings are part of the problem. I mentioned the following in another post. Did you bother to hit the home page from the vintage amp post? If not, go back and check it out. The survey there seemed to indicate that the majority of people voted the best sound was "Single ended". Are you going to claim that people who have nothing to do with your paranoia, or this forum, are also plotting against you? Why do you object to attirbutes long associated with good single ended design being voiced? Leave this forum and find other internet postings will describe many of the things you are so offended by, posted in abundance. One or two instances praising SET amps could be easily discounted. The numbers are just too great for that. If an individual wishes to explore the world of SET amplification, that is their right!! Yet, you and your associates continue with attemps to interfere with any exchange of SET information. What are you afraid of? If it's bad advice, or even false information, the individuals will come back and say so. All members of the forum will then know so. You, Parrot, NOSValves, or anyone else with such a fragile psyche needs to simply butt out. Klipsch out. ---------------- Tiring at best. Thanks Doc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clipped and Shorn Posted June 19, 2004 Share Posted June 19, 2004 "I do believe you are overintellectualizing a simple matter." i had a feeling you wouldn't be keeping up. c&s ps, if what jazman says is true, I agree with him. I never did understand the prejudice that was not based on one's experience. I did, in the old days, enjoy the purely physical analylsis of one topology and another, compare and contrast. it was always best when objective. Never did I understand the defensiveness, which as I remember it first came from the SET owners, not that it matters. Things should have never progressed from an analysis of the physics for what it was worth, to simple understandings of the physical differences. Preference was a whole other can of worms. A-priori dismissals of one topology over the other is absurd. Whatever floats your boat is what is happening, always was and always should have been. KH's overblown (likes to hear himself talk) often quoted grandiose overblown (oops I said that already) SET ephiphany did not help matters, and the vested (conflict of) interests were always suspect. He, if I remember, first introduced the subtle passive aggressive polarization to the unchallengable world of subjectivity, the unchallengability being the sneaky part which was manipulated like so much puddy to keep things polarized. A year later he was recanting, for the sake of the intelligence he always had, with more stories of the PPs he liked as well and still possessed and listened to, which was actually always the case. The unfortunate endless arguments of science vs. mysticism at the core of this subjectivity, was related to what I was saying in an earlier post. It is just too bad that so many issues which could just as easily be dealt with objectively (and helpfully) end up pushing so many unpleasant irrational buttons resulting in all the unfortunate wasted language......(the inept, second hand, and distorted mimicking and unqualified bumpkinesque reiteration of previous actual articulated wisdom from earlier intelligent discussions in these matters does not and never did help. Many of us used to just sit quietly trying our best to understand the discussions between these engineering minds, I still don't try to go there if not qualified.) The problem was (and is) that objectivity is confused with subjectivity.If you are making a subjective statement you should wear a loud bell around your neck so we all know, If you are making an objective statement, you should light fire crackers so we all know. Then we would avoid pointless and groundless antagonisms, which as someone pointed out, is really, lets not kid ourselves, about certain individuals not liking others, otherwise look at the many more civil and intelligent arguments among the educated here (or at least at one time in the past). I can dig it. C&S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chops Posted June 19, 2004 Share Posted June 19, 2004 I don't care really. I'm just trying to figure out why the hell every single topic on here lately goes completely WAY south within the first page. I mean, it's almost like you people are just looking for fights. No, I have not read this entire thread. No, I have no clue what the arguement is about. No, I honestly, truely, and totally DON'T care to know what it's about. Yes, I have realised this thread has unfortunately become useless. Yes, I have found out that people are leaving the forum because of threads like this. Yes, I can clearly see the "property value" of this site quickly going down the tubes. (no pun intended) I can only imagine what this forum looks like to newbies and non-members. (visitors) As for doctorcilantro, I hope you found some kind of useful information somewhere for your question. I'm gonna sit back and listen to my freshly warmed up NOS 5751 tubes now. Please hold the noise down in here. I want to be able to hear my stereo! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrot Posted June 19, 2004 Share Posted June 19, 2004 ---------------- On 6/19/2004 7:27:39 PM chops wrote: SCORE!!!! That was for Jaz BTW. ---------------- Come on, Chops, you must tell us what these two forums are that you supposedly moderate. They must be a riot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tubelover Posted June 19, 2004 Share Posted June 19, 2004 ---------------- On 6/19/2004 6:40:06 PM jazman wrote: "If some of the SET folks want to enjoy unmolested discussions, they should quit making their recommendations in such a way that fosters a spirit of exclusivity, and in such a way that doesn't infer these devices are the most transparent, involving, musical devices ever to grace the planet -- and anyone who can't hear it -- are just deaf and dumb mutes. You know, we didn't start this "war", they did " Horsepucky!!!!!! Dean, It's very revealing that you have finally admitted to your "War" with respect to low powered SET. You and your associates past actions are now clear. Next, I guess is low powered gaincards. You're full of it to infer that anyone has ever fostered a spirit of exclusivity when it comes to SET amps. This is pure bull from you. These types of parnoid or inferiority fear rantings are part of the problem. I mentioned the following in another post. Did you bother to hit the home page from the vintage amp post? If not, go back and check it out. The survey there seemed to indicate that the majority of people voted the best sound was "Single ended". Are you going to claim that people who have nothing to do with your paranoia, or this forum, are also plotting against you? Why do you object to attirbutes long associated with good single ended design being voiced? Leave this forum and find other internet postings will describe many of the things you are so offended by, posted in abundance. One or two instances praising SET amps could be easily discounted. The numbers are just too great for that. If an individual wishes to explore the world of SET amplification, that is their right!! Yet, you and your associates continue with attemps to interfere with any exchange of SET information. What are you afraid of? If it's bad advice, or even false information, the individuals will come back and say so. All members of the forum will then know so. You, Parrot, NOSValves, or anyone else with such a fragile psyche needs to simply butt out. Klipsch out. ---------------- The same old propoganda. Someone loves to see themself type. The agenda is the same, and it is getting rather old. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chops Posted June 19, 2004 Share Posted June 19, 2004 ---------------- On 6/19/2004 7:54:21 PM paulparrot wrote: ---------------- On 6/19/2004 7:27:39 PM chops wrote: SCORE!!!! That was for Jaz BTW. ---------------- Come on, Chops, you must tell us what these two forums are that you supposedly moderate. They must be a riot. ---------------- Supposedly?! You're a funny guy, so you think. Alright, I'll play your game. However, I'll only give you one of them for now, and if you're a good little boy, I'll give you the other one. BTW, take a close look at the picture and link right in the middlw of the page. Yes, that's my car. However, when the Admin put it in there, he entered the "wheel horsepower" as the "crank horsepower" which is really 163HP, where stock was 138HP. ANYWAY........ Read and weep.... http://www.sonataspeed.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tubelover Posted June 19, 2004 Share Posted June 19, 2004 ---------------- On 6/19/2004 8:03:30 PM chops wrote: ---------------- On 6/19/2004 7:54:21 PM paulparrot wrote: ---------------- On 6/19/2004 7:27:39 PM chops wrote: SCORE!!!! That was for Jaz BTW. ---------------- Come on, Chops, you must tell us what these two forums are that you supposedly moderate. They must be a riot. ---------------- Supposedly?! You're a funny guy, so you think. Alright, I'll play your game. However, I'll only give you one of them for now, and if you're a good little boy, I'll give you the other one. BTW, take a close look at the picture and link right in the middlw of the page. Yes, that's my car. However, when the Admin put it in there, he entered the "wheel horsepower" as the "crank horsepower" which is really 163HP, where stock was 138HP. ANYWAY........ Read and weep.... http://www.sonataspeed.com/ ---------------- I do have to admire your courage. It takes huge b*lls to admit that you own a Hyundai? OMG, that is funny! The sonataspeed.com website is a joke, correct? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chops Posted June 19, 2004 Share Posted June 19, 2004 Oh yeah, one other thing... well, actually a couple. 1)In that forum, we have our own version of PaulParrott by the name of Kal-El, that very very few people like. 2)I was MADE a moderator even before the site was up! The owner of this site liked me so much in the forum/site, that he wanted me moderating his site! And, if you look hard enough and read deep enough, you'll find out the other forum I moderate from time to time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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