anarchist Posted July 5, 2004 Share Posted July 5, 2004 I will let Colin respond to your individual questions Fini as my fees are quite high. Colin is on the right track - simplify - and obviously has a detailed understanding of operating systems and networking. I will point out one thing though: I have never found the need to use a hardware router once in a SOHO. I had a small LAN set up in my home for business purposes (design, develop, and test) and never used anything other than a hub with 5 machines. XP will be your router, server, print server, etc. I wouldn't even consider a router unless I wanted a dedicated firewall device - even then, XP provides firewall filtering capabilities more than sufficient for a SOHO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anarchist Posted July 5, 2004 Share Posted July 5, 2004 Fini, It has been a while since I developed and/or supported MACS. However, I would be completely surprised if the MAC didn't offer the same capabilities (print server, file server, network router) that XP does. You may have to install software (which is already bundled in XP) because I don't know what the MAC OS contains on the installation media. In short, you should be able to do everything I mentioned substituting MAC for XP. Obviously, the specific program name may change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fini Posted July 5, 2004 Author Share Posted July 5, 2004 Anarchist, Are you saying to run the cable modem, the Mac, the PC and the printer into a hub, then just configure the computers so that the PC is the server? I would like to be able to print from either machine without the other being turned on... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anarchist Posted July 5, 2004 Share Posted July 5, 2004 Ok, Because I am a curious one, I went out and did a quick check. File and print sharing from the MAC to the XP box, np. Same as Linux. Use Samba on MacOS and XP will see your MAC as just another Windows box. In fact, you will be able to see network resources in Network Neighborhood and everything else. File & Print Sharing Internet connection sharing is on the MAC as well. http://www.practicallynetworked.com/sharing/macproxy.htm>MAC as the ICS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anarchist Posted July 5, 2004 Share Posted July 5, 2004 Hey fini, IF you want to print from the remote computer (the one not connected to the printer) while the other is turned off, you will need a hardware-based print server. IF you want to connect to the Internet from the remote computer while the other is turned off, you will need a cable modem router. To connect all these different things you just need a hub. Each one plugs back into the hub (including the cable modem router) and all communicate. I, myself, never turn off my PC's - I just let them go into power savings mode, so no need for 'hardware' devices. On and off very bad but I don't want to spark a flame war debating this. I will mention adding multiple hardware devices (and keeping them turned on) to avoid leaving your PC on is, uh, questionable. PS. Colin better jump back in here because you are about to run up some bills. This computer genius stuff doesn't come cheap - Heck, I bill my own mother. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fini Posted July 5, 2004 Author Share Posted July 5, 2004 I'll trade you some expert construction advice... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anarchist Posted July 5, 2004 Share Posted July 5, 2004 Well now. I always believed in the bartering system and there are some improvements needed to my basement - like turning it from basement into living space. You want a SOHO or a network infrastructure which would do Fortune 500 companies proud? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted July 5, 2004 Share Posted July 5, 2004 Yes, any other connections require a home run to the router. However, wiring the house with wall outlets for network should help your resale a small amount. Yes, those simple Netgear routers will work, also watch for CompUSA sales, they may NOT be brand name but they will go for a song. Well worth the money, just to get the firewall type safety of a router. The drawings go quickly to the Mac (at 100 bps, which is where you will definitely notice the difference between a wired and wireless network). The Mac then prints them at the printers leisurely speed, but the PC is free to work since the doc is already gone over to the Mac. Therefore, the Mac acts as a printer server. You can add RAM to the printer to buffer the printer memory. This is simple, but NOT always cheap. You can add a standalone print buffer. This simply connects ahead of the printer and they are NOT very expensive. However, you will probably NOT need either for basic home printing. If you are serious about AutoCAD, a larger format printer, trips to Kinkos (which has them linked to their PCs) or a plotter might be options that are more practical. Dramatically increasing the printer buffer or spooler in XP can slow down RAM intensive programs like AutoCAD, but that only matters if your are printing from the XP box. You wont be, dont worry about it. Get the crossover cable or the router, plug it in, reboot and you will be fine. By the way, check the Mac OS to see if it networks automatically with peer-to-peer LANS or discovers the crossover connection automatically. Would NOT be surprised if it does, AppleTalk was a plug N play solution 2 decades ago! Ask the CompUSA guy if there is a router that works with both Mac and PCs, bet there is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted July 5, 2004 Share Posted July 5, 2004 SOHO, anarkist? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted July 5, 2004 Share Posted July 5, 2004 no configuring with XP, it knows the router is there, did not even have to Share Internet connections on mine, the Mac might also know the router is there, just plug N play... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvel Posted July 5, 2004 Share Posted July 5, 2004 A crossover cable won't help jack if they want to be on the internet at the same time. He wants to be able to print from either computer without the other being turned on. This requires a hardware print server. fini -- most inexpensive home routers have a minimum of 4 ethernet jacks. If you get a standalone print server, you will need three to hook everything up. 1 for the Mac 1 for the Windows PC 1 for the print server There is a WAN jack that would plug into the cable/dsl modem. If you need more jacks, you can plug is a small hub or switch off one of the router's ethernet ports. If the router has a print server (like the Netgear -- sorry it has Epson issues!), you would have to have the printer close to the router, which limits placement, and probably requires a parallel port for the printer and not a usb port. If the Epson has a network jack, you can place it on your network and just print from either computer to it. It shouldn't be a problem. The printer will just receive a job from either computer and no 'serving' need be done. Marvel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anarchist Posted July 5, 2004 Share Posted July 5, 2004 Colin, SOHO - small office/home office network Marvel, The crossover cable does exactly what it is supposed to do - transfer data from one pc to the other regardless of an internet connection. Obviously, you need a second connection to the cable modem which could be a second network card, USB, firewire, etc. There is no need for a separate router. It is pointless on a local network with one subnet. He can plug everything into a simple hub and go. As has been repeatedly mentioned, if he plans to turn off the PC with the connections, he would need to implement a hardware based solution rather than software. For a home lan, hardware print servers and routers are overkill, unnecessary expense, and result in more electrical costs than using software based solutions despite the requirement you have the CPU turned on when you are utilizing the services. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvel Posted July 5, 2004 Share Posted July 5, 2004 Why bother with putting another network card in the computer (probably BOTH)? If you want both on the internet you then have to set up internet sharing on the one with two cards. The router would be far less hassle. I didn't mean to question your knowledge or appear to give you a hard time. I just think that for the low price of a router, it is far easier to implement. My router uses all of 15 watts. Any pc used for getting everyone on the net is overkill. Even with the power problems in CA, the 15 watts is a non-issue. Marvel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted July 5, 2004 Share Posted July 5, 2004 Hub, switch or router will work: Mine, at CompUSA: 4-Port Cable/DSL Web Safe Router with 10/100 Mbps Switch Manufacturer: NETGEAR Mfg Part #: RP614NA Product Number: 294496 Price: $59.99 Easily Share the Internet While Protecting Your Network firewall protection secures your computers and network against hackers. Smart Setup Wizard automatically detects your Internet connection Connect whether you have Windows, Apple Macintosh Port Forwarding controls make it simple to communicate using multimedia applications (such as NetMeeting), host Web services, and play Internet games. NAT (Network Address Translation) Firewall double the memory and a 50% faster CPU than many popular routers Status lights make it easy to observe network activity restrict and monitor access to inappropriate Web sites Instant alerts and regular e-mail notification of browser activity 3m (10 ft.) Ethernet Cat 5 cable Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fini Posted July 5, 2004 Author Share Posted July 5, 2004 Colin, The RP614NA is only $30 (after rebate) at Amazon. Free shipping, too! I should probably update my Mac OS, too (currently 10.1, but I use 9.2.2), as 10.1 doesn't support file sharing w/Windows, apparently. Or, I thinl DAVE works with 9.2. What a mess, huh? BTW, my wife has invited me to share her sewing room (how manly!), so the PC won't be in the bedroom after all! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted July 5, 2004 Share Posted July 5, 2004 Froogle says $25 at Comp-U-Plus; how can you go wrong for ptr, Internet and hard drive sharing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fini Posted July 5, 2004 Author Share Posted July 5, 2004 I know it's already in the previous posts, but to clarify, with the RP614NA I possibly will not need a print server, eh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fini Posted July 5, 2004 Author Share Posted July 5, 2004 One more (looking dumb) question: Since I've never set this stuff up before and all, what would the look on the PC be if I were to search for files on the Mac? Would I see a Mac desktop, or an XP-ish list? If I were to look for, say, a Photoshop file, would Photoshop need to be installed on the PC as well? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvel Posted July 5, 2004 Share Posted July 5, 2004 fini, If it is a psd file (Photoshop format preserving layers, etc.) and you would want to see it on the PC, yes, you would need it there too. If it's just a gif, jpg, tif, bmp, then you could view it in another program (MS Photo Editor for example, or antoher cheap piece of software) I don't know how the files would look on teh PC end. Not sure how the Macs share files now. My daughter came home from film school with an external firewire drive formatted for a Mac, and I couldn't read it at all without 3rd party software. We got a copy of MacDrive (demo - worked for five days, but long enough to move the video files off the drive. I may by it later). It's a never ending quest to make it all transparent to the user, but it isn't there quite yet. Marvel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anarchist Posted July 5, 2004 Share Posted July 5, 2004 Fini, With the router Colin proposes, provided your printer contains a NIC you would not need a separate print server. If you are connecting the printer via one of the PC's - parallel port - the PC it is connected to would be the print server and would need to be turned on in order to use the printer. Or, you get a print server box and connect the printer to it and the print server to the hub/router eliminating the requirement for the PC to be on. If you use Samba as your Windows File & Print sharing method on the MAC, the PC would see files just like they were on XP. With Samba, your MAC is XP as far as Windows is concerned. To do anything with the files, you would need the XP equivalent of the program used to create them if they are application specific files. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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