OT: WIRED cable router / print servers?

[fini]

Sorry, this should have been in computers, but I thought I might get more hits 'n' help here. I'm trying to research and set up a home network with an iMac (w/ Thursby's DAVE v5 software) and a new PC running XP Pro. I think I want to go wired, and nothing fancy. Just shared cable internet access, and shared printer, and possibly file sharing (that's what DAVE is for). I'm "renting" my cable modem now, so buying one is an option, too. I would LOVE to find a combo unit (modem/router/server), again wired (all the stores are pushing wireless), but I'm not sure one exists. A combo router/server, with stand-alone modem is a second choice. Simplicity and reliability are my main concerns. Anyoune?

[Marvel]

fini,

I have a wireless/wired router (w a 4 port switch) installed at home. I didn't really want the wireless, but it has come in handy for my daughter to use when she is home from college. I didn't have to run wire to her room. The other PCs in the house are wired.

Mine does not have a print server, and for me wouldn't be practical, as the printer would then be locatated too far from my desk.

Was simple to set up (mostly), and I didn't have to use any of the software that came with the dsl modem, since I got the router and set it to never disconnect. Jeesh! It sound difficult, but it really isn't.

Cable/DSL Modem > Router > PCs and Macs

The router gets an ip address from the cable modem and the computers all get their ip addresses from the router.

http://shop.govconnection.com/web/Shopping/Product.htm?catalog%5Fname=PCCGeneral&category%5Fname=&product%5Fid=353113&variant%5Fid=&SearchLogID=%7B875D5FAC%2D0724%2D4881%2DB884%2D28EE5226567C%7D

The Netgear in this link is an FR114P, which includes a print server. May be more than you want to spend. At the govconnection (pcconnection), it is $84.

Cheers,

Marvel

ps are you the only one with the Mac? If it is a newer one, you shouldn't have any trouble connecting them.

[thebes]

You mean you don't know how to modify Khorny's to do this? Apparantly you're not spending enough time on this Forum and missed the "Turn Your Khorny's into a Router" thread.

What's your objection to wireless? Don't you already have enough speaker wires and such running around the house?

I'm single so I don't really need a home network, but going wireless will get you the latest protocols and if you have one, you can use your laptop anywhere in the house. Just be sure to enable the security blocs or your neighbors will be using up your bandwith.

As far as the server aspect, why not just use your new PC. If your going to be massaging and sending massive amounts of data you can pop in a second harddrive, and use a Raid configuration to flog the data. Also a gig of ddr ram is a good idea. (used matched harddrives and matched pairs of ram). All new decent pc's have this capability so your pc should be able to handle this.

[Marvel]

Shring the printer off the pc is a simple task. Having to leave it on just so someone else in the house can print may not be desirable.

Wireless works -- most of the time -- but yes, you should enable a WEP key.

Marvel

[fini]

The only objection to wireless is reliability. I have a friend who loses his connection whenever someone picks up the cordless phone. Or uses the microwave oven. I'm also worried that if someone has secretly implanted some chip in me, I might not be able to read the forum.

[Juba310]

If you want reliability don't go the wireless route. I use wireless just because the wires would drive my parents crazy (my computer is across the house). Wireless is really finicky... sometimes it will just go out a good minute or so for no apparent reason. Othertimes it works just fine.

[J.4knee]

Fini,

I have run both a wired router with and with out an internal print server. My experience says go with a separate print server/router and modem. My dual function unit was a SMC and the print function was annoyingly slow and then I switched to separate Linksys units for Modem, Router and Printserver. We run a WIN2K, WINXP and IBook though them other than the IBook can't print because she has to leave her print settings set fo work for it to work at her school. Prior to that change the Ibook printed just fine. I have to admit I am barely literate when it comes to MAC's. But for my recommendation go with separates.

[Marvel]

We have a 900Mhz cordless phone, so no interference with the wireless. The microwave is at the other end of the house, and hasn't caused a problem.

802.11b uses 2.4 Ghz

Microwaves use 2.4 Ghz

Many cordless phones use 2.4 Ghz

See a problem here?

The college where I work has banned 2.4 Ghz phones from the dorms, and is restricing the use of microwaves in rooms. Things are working pretty well. We put over 600 computers on the network this past fall. The Apple computers with an Airport card have been the easiest since it is Apple hardware. Win2K and WinXP have been okay depending on the card used.

I would still go wired if I had the chance.

Marvel

[dougdrake]

Fini - Do you need USB or parallel interface for your print server? I used a D-Link wired router/print server (with a parallel connection) and it worked great.

I also have a Hawking Technology wired USB print server, and it too works great (99.5% of the time - sometimes I have to "reboot" it causes it drifts off to never-never land). The Hawking supports IPP (Internet Printing Protocol) which is handy if you are on another network somewhere and want to print to your printer at home.

I just got a Belkin wireless 2-port USB print server which promises to work well, but I'm having a few wireless challenges right now. It will probably work fine, but I need to change out my wireless router and some cards. Of the brands of wireless I've tried, Linksys is probably the best (and I hate to say that 'cause they're owned by Cisco).

dd

[fini]

Doug,

Yhe printer (an Epson all-in-one, CX5400) uses USB.

This is a path I've been down many times: you know, the one where, in order to get to the next step, you simply must spend another $100 to find out something doesn't work for you...

In researching satisfaction with these products (at cnet.com, Amazon, epinions, etc), it is amazing how many people have major problems. Of course, not knowing the dissatisfied customers and their equipment & knowledge of such (plus their expectations of the gear) makes it real hard to accurately judge any particular piece of equipment. I'm thinking of calling the wasteland of technical service at Epson, Apple, the router/server companies and asking their recommendations, given the computers and software I already have (but I really wanted to get something else done today besides solving this problem...). Ah, the search goes on!

Marvel, the router/server you directed me to seems to be pretty good, although it seems I read a comment somewhere like "doesn't play well with Epson," which is discouraging.

Thanks for the "real world" experiences, y'all. They're much more valuable than sales hype, for sure! Keep 'em coming!

[Colin]

Hey, this thread is just like the stereo threads: lots of answers without lots of questions first!

Where are the PCs, next to each other? Room next door? Other end of the house? Out in the patio/porch?

True file-sharing? Or do you mean you want access to files on the other hard drive? What about automatically copying files from one hard drive to the other to create a simple back-up? (XP Pro can do this; but I am NOT 100% sure about the Mac version, though I dont see why NOT).

Why print server? Which PC is the printer attached to? USB connection? Have you printed to that printer with both PCs? Any problems? How big are your documents? Do you know that if you send the docs to the other PC for printing, that the other PC acts like a print server?

Wired PC-to-PC networks are more of a hassle, especially as you add PCs, BUT it is cheaper, easier, almost no effort, up to 1,000 times faster and safer, meaning wired LANS are simpler and more reliable.

[fini]

Here you go, Colin!

Where are the PCs, next to each other? Room next door? Other end of the house? Out in the patio/porch?

Other end of the house, less than 100 feet away.

True file-sharing? Or do you mean you want access to files on the other hard drive? What about automatically copying files from one hard drive to the other to create a simple back-up? (XP Pro can do this; but I am NOT 100% sure about the Mac version, though I don’t see why NOT).

Primarily, I want to be able to print with both machines. I'm not sure about the file sharing/file access question. Can you explain the difference? It'd be nice to be able to grab, say, a photo off one machine, or a Word document.

Why print server? Which PC is the printer attached to? USB connection? Have you printed to that printer with both PCs? Any problems? How big are your documents? Do you know that if you send the docs to the other PC for printing, that the other PC acts like a print server?

The printer will be close to the Mac. I have not yet connected the printer to the PC (good suggested first step!). I guess using the Mac as a print server would work? That would be great (fewer little boxes...). I guess I'd have to just try it, huh? As far as doc size, probably nothing too huge, but I am about to take my AutoCAD class, and those docs can be pretty big, I guess. Does size matter?

Wired PC-to-PC networks are more of a hassle, especially as you add PCs, BUT it is cheaper, easier, almost no effort, up to 1,000 times faster and safer, meaning wired LANS are simpler and more reliable.

Hassle-free reliability (and simplicity) are what I'm lookin' for!

[Colin]

By the way, a router is a GREAT way to add permanent firewall protection

While you were writing that, I plugged in my Netgear RP614 router/gateway and rebooted it was that easy!

[Colin]

Other end 100 away means you will have to run cable up through wall or closet, across attic and down inside wall or closet? Is this your house? Permanent location?

Ethernet cable over 50 is possible, but awfully expensive, unless you buy the cable in bulk form, a set of wire pliers and the cable ends (called dongles). You can by two sets of 50 cable and place the router in the middle (needs electrical outlet).

Simple router will let you print with both machines, no problem, in Control Panel, under printers, select your printer and set Properties to Share-

Close to the Mac? Or connected to the Mac? Either PC will be a great print server, until you get to those large multi-page AutoCAD drawings, then almost anything will be slow, printer BUFFERS are cheap, simply plug them into the printer and/or add printer RAM, also, you can increase the printer SPOOLER in the PCs RAM before you print those large CAD drawings-

[Colin]

Although I dont think XP Pro is worth the extra money, especially in home or small business applications, it does have automatic back-ups where they are easy to find, and it is network aware, which means that simply plugging in a 4-port (PC) router with network cable (about $40 each) is all you need to have a instant peer-to-peer (PC to PC) local area (same place) network.

[anarchist]

Hello,

Based on your requirements, you, in fact, need nothing more than a crossover cable. Plug the cable into the Apple and the XP box. Connect the printer to the parallel port on the XP box. On XP, install the printer and then mark it as shared. XP is your print server. While you are at it, create a share of your C: drive. To share internet connection, use the ICS wizard on XP. Now your XP box will be your internet router and allow your other machine to connect to the net through it - provided your cable modem is attached to the XP box. Do what you do on your Mac (configuration wise) point it to the network printer or network drive. You share printer, files, and internet access.

If you don't want to use a crossover cable, go buy your wired hub. Same procedure otherwise.

[Colin]

You want to share hard drives, NOT true file sharing, which is the silmutanous sharing of the same file at the same time. Sharing hard drives is a great idea for storage and back-ups. By regularly copying all changed files from drive to the other, you create one extra copy in at least one other location. One or both of the PCs should have a low cost APC UPS. Then by burning a copy of all important files on a CD, you then have THREE copies of the data: the original on the first PC, the copy on the second one and the copy on the disc. This is the bare minimum for safe back-ups to protect your valuable data.

[Colin]

The Anachrist is absolutely correct, guess he knows the value of established intuitions after all, all you do need is a simple crossover cable and any electronics store has them, I went with a four-port router (one step up from gateway, hub or switch) because I knew I would be keeping my ancient PC as a back-up hard drive and kids PC in spare bedroom, so I wanted to be able to have three PCs online

[fini]

Other end 100’ away means you will have to run cable up through wall or closet, across attic and down inside wall or closet? Is this your house? Permanent location?

Pretty much a permanent location. I'd run it under the house in the crawl space, and into the wall to a box with plug terminations at each end (so I could move the remote computer, the PC, around in the room). My house.

Ethernet cable over 50’ is possible, but awfully expensive, unless you buy the cable in bulk form, a set of wire pliers and the cable ends (called dongles). You can by two sets of 50’ cable and place the router in the middle (needs electrical outlet).

Yes, I will go the bulk route. BTW, any other possible locations will need a "home run" to the router, right?

Simple router will let you print with both machines, no problem, in Control Panel, under printers, select your printer and set Properties to Share-

So, just a router (like the Netgear RP614NA, good reviews, $30 on Amazon) should work, w/o a stand-alone print server (like the Netgear PS101)? In this case, the Mac becomes the print server?

Close to the Mac? Or connected to the Mac? Either PC will be a great print server, until you get to those large multi-page AutoCAD drawings, then almost anything will be slow, printer BUFFERS are cheap, simply plug them into the printer and/or add printer RAM, also, you can increase the printer SPOOLER in the PC’s RAM before you print those large CAD drawings-

Well, currently connected, right on the same desktop. I don't know how much printing of the AutoCAD drawings I will be doing, as the Epson is not a large-format printer. Can you suggest specific printer buffers? Is the printer RAM actually in the printer, or is it allocated from the server (computer, in this case, the Mac)? Would increasing the SPOOLER be something one would "undo" after a large print job, or just leave that way?

Thanks, Colin!

[fini]

Anarchist,

I really need to have the modem and the printer at the Mac location. The PC will be in the bedroom, and my wife wants to minimize the "equipment" there (nudge, nudge, wink, wink).