RAPTORMAN Posted July 20, 2004 Share Posted July 20, 2004 Has anybody here heard other horn speakers?? I was surfing the net and there's quite a bit out there. I wonder if those would sound better than my Khorns. Some of them have higher effeceincy than Klipschorns. Just wondering. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAPTORMAN Posted July 20, 2004 Author Share Posted July 20, 2004 I would love to hear the AVANTGARDE TRIO They look pretty intimidating. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LOADEDTUNES Posted July 20, 2004 Share Posted July 20, 2004 ---------------- On 7/20/2004 2:18:13 PM RAPTORMAN wrote: Has anybody here heard other horn speakers?? I was surfing the net and there's quite a bit out there. I wonder if those would sound better than my Khorns. -------------- How long of a list would you like ? As far as something sounding better then klipschorns , well , it all depends on amplification ,source , listening habits , musical preference and last but not least room size and or acoustics . In other words there is no answer to your last question but to A/B test in your room with your ears with your gear . No one else can honestly answer what your asking . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-MAN Posted July 20, 2004 Share Posted July 20, 2004 This brings up a thought: why do I like horns in the first place? And in particular, which horns? Well, I remember as a kid the facination I felt when I saw the insides of a folded horn. The idea that one could make an enclosure that through mathematical means made it more efficient than the same speaker in a box has held that same facination all of these years. Now that I know the methods involved, I recognise the ingenuity of these designs which gives me an intellectual satisfaction lacking in alot of other things that I buy. I suppose that I have a "thing" for older designs. I have always liked Altec A-7's. The only reason that I don't have a pair is that (like most other horns) they are too big for my space, being more-or-less square-ish. Also a University Classic would be fun. Or a set of the 5ft Tannoys. I haven't even heard a JBL Hartsfield, but I'd love too. The question that I have to ask myself (and refuse to answer, just to cause trouble) is "do I have an informed opinion, or am I just an old fart?" Does the amount of work that goes into a design make it "better"? Does using a slide-rule rather than a computer make it "better"? Were the old guys just "better" than the unseen, unknown and ubiquitous computer clones banging out speaker designs today? I think that that may have something to do with my opinions, maybe. Something to do with a more hands-on, personally involved designer whose product is more "hand-made" or quality-driven; something with a man's name on it. I can't really say... But I have heard Khorns and have a pair of DIY corner horns. Why I chose that is somewhat a love affair that I have had with them since my youth, but it goes beyond that. Let me attempt to justify my decision: The benefits of a Khorn is that it doesn't take up as much space, and what it does take up is pretty much useless space in itself. What else am I going to put in a corner besides a chair or some piece of furniture. Another benefit is that you can mix and match speaker drivers and crossovers until the cows come home... The drawbacks are that you gotta have corners and that means that the room should be within certain performance parameters to get the "best" performance out of them. The main issues with horns are that a low frequency cabinet is going to be physically big. The lower one goes, the bigger it has to be. The alternative that we see is a set of horns of somewhat reasonable size (ala the Avantgard stuff) and a separate subwoofer (or suitable substitute like a reflex cabinet,etc.). But the compromise is that it is not a fully horn loaded system. Personally, if you're going horns, go all the way... I hang pretty much with the Klipsch crowd because I like the connection with history that PWK designs embody. For instance, he particularily had a preference for a front-loaded bifurcated bass horn. Most other "newer" designs are either not a horn loaded bass or is not a front-loaded bass horn. Also, approaching efficiencies of 50% is close enough for me. This becomes a matter of taste and financial means, have you guys checked out the prices for the "new" designs? That nips it in the bud for me! But there are some great ideas out there, and I certainly haven't heard them all... I bought some newer speakers and as I found them lacking, I went back to the speakers of my youth to find what was missing. Nostalgia or time-proven performance capability? Maybe a bit of both... DM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunnysal Posted July 20, 2004 Share Posted July 20, 2004 I have heard avantegarde speakers at a showroom in NYC, they were very nice sounding. I have heard altec VOTT speakers which also sounded nice and lastly I have heard a pair of hartsfield, which sounded really great. I have not found anything yet that makes we want to dump my klipschorns though. I have decided, after more than 25 years of looking that horn speakers "float my boat"...I am now just working on how to improve the k-horns a bit...lol, tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZAKO Posted July 20, 2004 Share Posted July 20, 2004 Ive heard the JBL Hartsfield (3 versions) . The Tannoy Westminster. Klipschorns (5 versions). All excellent sounding. Lowther single full range driver horns on the lower range of horn preference. they sound pinched with weak bass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edwinr Posted July 20, 2004 Share Posted July 20, 2004 I've heard several variations on Lowther folded horn designs. Nice midrange but there are invariably restrictions at the frequency extremes. Some of the custom cabinet designs I've seen are huge! But they sound okay, if not a bit colored. The Avantgarde series is outstanding. I'd have to say the Trio approaches the Klipschorn in sound quality. But when you take pricing into account, there's no contest in favour of the Klipschorn of course. The other Avantgarde speakers, being the Duo and Uno are hybrids, so I wouldn't consider those with pure horn designs, although I don't mind the sound quality. Another favourite of mine is the Loth-X range. They're based on the 'Stamm' driver, a design not dissimilar to the Lowther, created by Singapore based, Steven Stamm. Steven has recently redesigned the driver and the new version doesn't feature the 'dual cone' appearance of the older version. I haven't heard the new driver but it's claimed to have reduced significantly the coloration and frequency response limitations of the older Lowther based design. I hope to listen to the new driver design soon as the Australian importer has been in touch with me and invited me for a listen. I'm looking forward to that. Apart from pricing, which is greater than that asked by Klipsch for the Klipschorn, the Loth-X designs appear to be far more amplifier and source dependant than the Klipschorn. As Klipsch enthusiasts know and appreciate, the Klipschorn can be driven adequately by budget tube amps. But when matched to high quality tube designs (yeah, okay, even certain solid state designs - I can't believe I said that!), the Klipschorn becomes a totally different breed, exhibiting all the qualities and attributes of true high end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdm56 Posted July 20, 2004 Share Posted July 20, 2004 Maron, you must get to the big city much more than I. Of course, to me Springfield and Joplin are big. I believe the k-horn, belle and la scala are the only full range horns I have heard, unless I've heard something else in a movie theater without knowing what it was. -Guess that doesn't count. But from what I've seen, nothing out there comes close to the affordability of klipsch, and when you consider how unobtrusive the corner-horns are once they're tucked snugly in a corner, I haven't been losing any sleep over what I may be missing. I would like to hear a pair of Avante Garde Trios, though, just to see what the fuss is all about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dantfmly Posted July 21, 2004 Share Posted July 21, 2004 ---------------- On 7/20/2004 2:18:13 PM RAPTORMAN wrote: Has anybody here heard other horn speakers?? I was surfing the net and there's quite a bit out there. I wonder if those would sound better than my Khorns. Some of them have higher effeceincy than Klipschorns. Just wondering. ---------------- JBL has/had a lot of horn stuff. THey have a pair of 25,000 dollar horn speakers. and they have a more moderate priced HT setup that has horns. Plus they have a lot of stuff in the past, plus they home movie theater stuff, too, with horns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZAKO Posted July 21, 2004 Share Posted July 21, 2004 Dantfmly.....The $25000 JBL K2 S9800 is only horn loaded from 800hz on up. The bass is a new 15" alnico direct radiater. Some feel the bottom end needs more slam. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeke_in_KC Posted July 21, 2004 Share Posted July 21, 2004 As horn/woofer hybrids go, I've listened extensively to Altec Lansing Model 14s and found them to be quite servicable. A such, I was terribly interested in locating a pair of Altec 19s, with a larger woofer and superior horn, prior to locating my "bargain priced" <$40> Klipsch Cornwalls. Actually, I'm still curious about the Model 19's timbre, as they are typically touted as being excellent in auditory reproduction, but I cannot imagine them being comparable in value or -- dare I say it -- significantly superior in sound. As such, I'm happy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coda Posted July 21, 2004 Share Posted July 21, 2004 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan Songer Posted July 21, 2004 Share Posted July 21, 2004 My dream since I was only a lad. Some day . . . http://www.audioheritage.org/images/jbl/photos/home-speakers/thumbs/paragon-color_small.jpg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy Landau Posted July 21, 2004 Share Posted July 21, 2004 ---------------- On 7/21/2004 9:13:24 PM Allan Songer wrote: My dream since I was only a lad. Some day . . . ---------------- Your dream doesn't sound so good. A C50 Olympus or a C60 sovereign will blow it away. I'd keep that Barcelona chair, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan Songer Posted July 21, 2004 Share Posted July 21, 2004 Yeah, I know the Paragon isn't as good as it's reputation. I've heard two of them and one "Metragon" over the years and they have the SMALLEST sweet spot for listening I have ever experienced. The best of the three I've heard was driven by a pair of Marantz 9s. MY Marantz 9s that I sold to the guy with the Paragon about 25 years ago or so. I just think the Paragon is the most incredible piece of hi-fi gear in terms of engineering, construction and looks. Plus it DOES sound REALLY REALLY good--maybe not the end all but certainly holds its own with any Klipsch product. I have owned MANY Tannoys over the years. My current "2nd" system includes a pair of 12" Monitor Golds in factory cabinets. I once owned a pair 15" Reds in horn-loaded corner cabinets. I had them in a 1200 sq ft open space with 20' ceilings and they were the best party speakers I ever owned--San Francisco, 1982. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coda Posted July 21, 2004 Share Posted July 21, 2004 As far as taste goes I can easily see why they're desireable, for ~$23K it can be yours. Makes for nice reading at Lansing Heritage's site. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan Songer Posted July 21, 2004 Share Posted July 21, 2004 I met a guy once who knew a guy who bought a Paragon out of the bottom of an empty swimming pool in Chicago for a hundred dollars. The house was the original Playboy mansion--seems that the owner had sold the place and was moving to Los Angeles. He also got a bunch of McIntosh tube gear . . . I might pay a ton of money for records, but there is no way in hell I'd ever pay 23,000 dollars for a Paragon. Plus, about 2 or 3 times a year one sells on ebay for about ten grand. I like my $300 Cornwalls just fine. Never owned another speaker that made Lee Morgan sound better . . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dantfmly Posted July 22, 2004 Share Posted July 22, 2004 ---------------- On 7/21/2004 6:31:45 PM Maron Horonzak wrote: Dantfmly.....The $25000 JBL K2 S9800 is only horn loaded from 800hz on up. The bass is a new 15" alnico direct radiater. Some feel the bottom end needs more slam. ---------------- He said nothing bout it being fully horn loaded. He just said other horn speakers besides klipsch. My klipsch are only horn from 750hz and up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hwatkins Posted July 22, 2004 Share Posted July 22, 2004 Here is my take (I tend to be milk toast with my opinions - yeah, right). You have a decent list of other horns out there and it is by no means complete. Horns are generally recognized as the first technology for amplification of sound and folks have diddled with them for centuries. That means that most engineering has it down on how to replicate sounds using horns. It also is pretty darn clear that the length of the longest sound wave (them pesky low frequencies) creates a delima when fully loading a horn for accurate, dynamic reproduction. As is the case in most all environments - some accuracy is generally compromised for dynamics (it does seem that most hornys side on dynamics as their real preference point). One listens to those compromises - this is the main difference in good horn loaded speakers - and chooses their poison. Most will be very adamant about horn loading the mid and high frequencies and more willing to be 'non-purist' on the LF to get dynamics that fit in the house. As to Khorns - I have maintained for years that PWK did purty darn good on the design. I have yet to hear anything as good within $3,000 to $5,000 of their retail price. I have heard some horns in the $25,000 range that really make me wonder how they can justify that price with the Khorn on the market - even without the right corners these babies shine. Bang for the buck - IMHO Khorns win hands down. Actually, Klipsch wins hands down. When I am done with my current JBL project I anticipate a mini belle looking thing that sounds most like a Cornwall. Even as a DIY the final cost will be in the $800 plus range. I could pay the same for a tried and proven sound, I am just a bit too geekish to do that... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZAKO Posted July 22, 2004 Share Posted July 22, 2004 Although beautiful looking the JBL PARAGON had one great flaw. Only the midrange driver 375 & its elipticle horn reflects off the curved panel. Every thing else spit out from the large horn mouth where the 075 super tweeter resided. The Metregon was better in that all speakers reflected off the curved panel. The Tannoy Westminsters go for triple the cost of Klipschorns. But the demand is still there for Tannoys. Mostly in JAPAN going for about $35000. The JBL K2 S9500 & K2 S9800 are well respected over there and sales are good for horn systems. I would like to know how many Klipschorns are sold in Japan per year. (If any) Or world wide. I know one pr just went to Australia recently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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