djost Posted July 23, 2004 Share Posted July 23, 2004 Looking for a subwoofer for my 2-channel stereo. Since I have Klipsch LaScalas, I have been reading this forum to see what others are using with their Klipsch speakers. But, the two subs that caught my eye I really haven't read much about in this forum. So, I wanted to ask what others thought about them. The two subs that I'm considering are : 1 - Cain and Cain Bailey www.cain-cain.com/audio/bailey 2 - PINNACLE KILIMANJARO www.acoustic-visions.com/~acoustic/products/subwoofers/pre_finished/pinnacle_kilimanjaro.shtml My primary requirement is a sub that compliments my LaScalas in a 2-channel environment. Sub will not be used in a home theater. I don't need earth shaking bass. I just want the sub to blend as seamlessly as possible with the LaScalas and faithfully reproduce the bass when called on. A pair of Klipschorns would be the best answer, but I don't have two corners to put them in and building false corners won't work in my situation. Stereo : Welborne Labs DRD 2A3, LaScalas wALK xovers, Basie preamp (diyhifisupply.com), PS Audio 5.5 preamp (using the phono stage), Linn Axis turntable wGrado Reference Master, Rotel CD. My room is ~18x20. I listen to jazz, rock, country classical. Never had a problem with 2A3s/LaScalas playing Allman Brothers, Pearl Jam, Davis, Monk, Evans to realistic volumes. Just want a little more bass. Best Regards, DJOST Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubai2000 Posted July 25, 2004 Share Posted July 25, 2004 I cannot comment on the two subs you are considering, but I have been exposed to a LaScala/Sunfire Signature combo and I must say that to my ears this IS a very good combination. I should add that I am also talking about a 2-channel setup. For myself, I have chosen SVS' PB2-ISD to supplement my Khorns and I am a very happy camper indeed (talking again about music, not HT)!!! But of course there will be other alternatives..... Wolfram Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay481985 Posted July 25, 2004 Share Posted July 25, 2004 well the PINNACLE KILIMANJARO is one beast really designed for home theater not really music, though they say it is ok for it. That is because the subwoofer is the monster king of kings for now subwoofer called the tumult. The tumult has a one way peek of 34 mm xmax, 1600 watt rms power handling capability, a vas of 160 liters, and is 15 inches. Musical maybe? powerful to shake everything loose on you house absolutely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prodj101 Posted July 27, 2004 Share Posted July 27, 2004 I'd go with the kilimanjaro. It will do a better job of keeping up with the Lascalas, and because it's a sealed system rather than ported, it should put out a more clean controlled sound, which is what most people look for when setting up a specifically music system. It will also have less distortion due to the much higher driver surface area. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djost Posted July 31, 2004 Author Share Posted July 31, 2004 Thank you for the feedback to this thread. The info is very helpful. I'm no expert when it comes to subs, so the feedback is very much appreciated. Also, want to mention that I exchanged a couple of emails with Kyle Richardson (Acoustic Visions) and Terry Cain. Both were very helpful in their replies. And, are great people to work with. From what I can tell both offer very good products. It does appears that the Kilimanjaro and Bailey are very different (sealed vs. ported, 15 inch Tumult vs. 10 inch SEAS, internal amps and so on). Not being able to listen to either adds another unknown. But, based on the feedback and some research, I'm thinking very seriously about purchasing the Kilimanjaro. The woofer, cabinet design/size ... of the Kilimanjaro just seems like a better match for the LaScalas. I know a lot of people like SVS and Sunfire. And, I even exchanged a few emails with Tom at SVS. But, I would like to try something different. I know, not very scientific. If anyone has addition comments, please post them. Will probable place my order Monday/Tuesday. Best Regards - djost Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klipsch Employees Trey Cannon Posted August 1, 2004 Klipsch Employees Share Posted August 1, 2004 I use the THX Ultra 2 subs. The SVS are not "Clean" enough to much harmonic distoration Dont know about the others... Our sub engineer is the mod in this area. He may have more ideas. The THX subs are very fast. The only down side is the are a bit pricey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radiob Posted August 1, 2004 Share Posted August 1, 2004 I use my paradigm servo 15 and x-30 crossover with my chorus2s and 2a3sets, it blends seemlessly and has way more power than I will ever use. I use it primarly for music playback. There is one on audiogon now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myhamish Posted August 1, 2004 Share Posted August 1, 2004 Here's a LaScala with one of 2 subs. A Crown D150A is driving both LaScalas and a DC300A is driving the sub. Each sub has two KEF B300 12" woofers in an internally braced cabinet. I'm using the other sub with my HT setup with the RF3's, RC3 and RS3's right now. I posted a pix of that yesterday. A couple of observations FWIW, the WAF factor in this setup is extremely low. As far as sound goes, the sub definitely adds more bottom end where it is needed. I think both Heresies and LaScalas benefit from a good sub setup. Slainte. Hamish Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fabulousfrankie Posted August 1, 2004 Share Posted August 1, 2004 ---------------- On 7/25/2004 9:16:25 AM Jay481985 wrote: well the PINNACLE KILIMANJARO is one beast really designed for home theater not really music, though they say it is ok for it. That is because the subwoofer is the monster king of kings for now subwoofer called the tumult. The tumult has a one way peek of 34 mm xmax, 1600 watt rms power handling capability, a vas of 160 liters, and is 15 inches. Musical maybe? powerful to shake everything loose on you house absolutely. ---------------- How so? It's probably the best driver available in a sealed enclosure which means it will excell with transient response(a good thing for music). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boomer9911 Posted August 1, 2004 Share Posted August 1, 2004 to bad....you should look at the Velodyne HGS-"15", nice match for a pair of LaScalas. I use a Velodyne FSR-18 with my Khorns...sweet..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay481985 Posted August 2, 2004 Share Posted August 2, 2004 ---------------- On 8/1/2004 7:45:48 PM fabulousfrankie wrote: ---------------- On 7/25/2004 9:16:25 AM Jay481985 wrote: well the PINNACLE KILIMANJARO is one beast really designed for home theater not really music, though they say it is ok for it. That is because the subwoofer is the monster king of kings for now subwoofer called the tumult. The tumult has a one way peek of 34 mm xmax, 1600 watt rms power handling capability, a vas of 160 liters, and is 15 inches. Musical maybe? powerful to shake everything loose on you house absolutely. ---------------- How so? It's probably the best driver available in a sealed enclosure which means it will excell with transient response(a good thing for music). ---------------- where did you hear its the best sub for a sealed enclosure? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
formica Posted August 2, 2004 Share Posted August 2, 2004 LaScalas are very efficient, and the Cain&Cain Bailey subwoofer simply won't be able to keep up with them. It would probably help with bass-extension at low volumes but would quickly run out steam. If we compare the Seas L26RFX/P08 and the Adire Tumult's T/S parameters... the differences are substantial. That would also explain why the Adire raw driver retails for four (4) times the cost of the SEAS. I would definitely go for the Kilimanjaro in your case. ---------------- On 8/2/2004 12:04:36 AM Jay481985 wrote: ---------------- On 8/1/2004 7:45:48 PM fabulousfrankie wrote: How so? It's probably the best driver available in a sealed enclosure which means it will excell with transient response(a good thing for music). ---------------- where did you hear its the best sub for a sealed enclosure? ---------------- I think Frank is referring to the fact that the Tumult has a Qts value of 3.6 which would make it equally at home in a sealed or ported enclosure. It's linear excursion performance is also equally beneficial in both types of enclosure. Perhaps explaining why you feel it is "one beast really designed for home theater not really music" would be a better question? Whether the Tumult or any other driver is the ultimate sub is more of a personal opinion. Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fabulousfrankie Posted August 2, 2004 Share Posted August 2, 2004 ---------------- On 8/2/2004 12:04:36 AM Jay481985 wrote: ---------------- On 8/1/2004 7:45:48 PM fabulousfrankie wrote: ---------------- On 7/25/2004 9:16:25 AM Jay481985 wrote: well the PINNACLE KILIMANJARO is one beast really designed for home theater not really music, though they say it is ok for it. That is because the subwoofer is the monster king of kings for now subwoofer called the tumult. The tumult has a one way peek of 34 mm xmax, 1600 watt rms power handling capability, a vas of 160 liters, and is 15 inches. Musical maybe? powerful to shake everything loose on you house absolutely. ---------------- How so? It's probably the best driver available in a sealed enclosure which means it will excell with transient response(a good thing for music). ---------------- where did you hear its the best sub for a sealed enclosure? ---------------- What I said didn't come out right...I meant to say that it's one of the best driver's available and sealed enclosures in general give good transient response. Rob's right about the other sub, it won't have a any chance of keeping up with the LaScala's output. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay481985 Posted August 3, 2004 Share Posted August 3, 2004 ---------------- On 8/2/2004 4:18:44 PM formica wrote: LaScalas are very efficient, and the Cain&Cain Bailey subwoofer simply won't be able to keep up with them. It would probably help with bass-extension at low volumes but would quickly run out steam. If we compare the Seas L26RFX/P08 and the Adire Tumult's T/S parameters... the differences are substantial. That would also explain why the Adire raw driver retails for four (4) times the cost of the SEAS. I would definitely go for the Kilimanjaro in your case. ---------------- On 8/2/2004 12:04:36 AM Jay481985 wrote: ---------------- On 8/1/2004 7:45:48 PM fabulousfrankie wrote: How so? It's probably the best driver available in a sealed enclosure which means it will excell with transient response(a good thing for music). ---------------- where did you hear its the best sub for a sealed enclosure? ---------------- I think Frank is referring to the fact that the Tumult has a Qts value of 3.6 which would make it equally at home in a sealed or ported enclosure. It's linear excursion performance is also equally beneficial in both types of enclosure. Perhaps explaining why you feel it is "one beast really designed for home theater not really music" would be a better question? Whether the Tumult or any other driver is the ultimate sub is more of a personal opinion. Rob ---------------- look at the specs of the tumult. Im sure its good for music but for the fact that the Fs is 19 hertz. Music usually doesn't have too much below the 40 hertz range which is why the tumult is probably better for home theater Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
formica Posted August 4, 2004 Share Posted August 4, 2004 ---------------- On 8/3/2004 11:29:27 PM Jay481985 wrote: Im sure its good for music but for the fact that the Fs is 19 hertz. Music usually doesn't have too much below the 40 hertz range which is why the tumult is probably better for home theater ---------------- The objective of a subwoofer is to reproduce the frequencies below those produced by your main speakers... usually the 20Hz to 80Hz range. The bass content in that range will depend on your musical tastes, but a lot of my music extends into those octaves. Although I usually can't tell my sub is on while listening to music... it is quite obvious when I turn it off. Ummm... as for having a low Fs, it is essential in building a subwoofer, esp in a sealed enclosure (ie: when not reinforced by porting). In a sealed system, the F3 of the box is directly proportionate to the Fs of the driver... but isn't Fs. In other words, the Tumult will probably have a f3 of about 35Hz in a sealed enclosure courtesy of the drivers 19Hz Fs. There are many factors which go into producing a quality driver, but having a low resonant frequency is important when designing a SUBwoofer. Try a couple of different drivers in a simulation software and you will understand what I mean. Later... Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djost Posted August 4, 2004 Author Share Posted August 4, 2004 Will be purchasing the Pinnacle Kilimanjaro subwoofer in white birch veneer. I also decided to upgrade the amplifier from the PartsExpress 300-808 to the Adire Audio HS500. From exchanging a couple of emails with Kyle and looking at the documentation on the HS500 amp, I think the additional cost (just price difference between the two amps) will be worth it. The link to the Kilimanjaro is : http://www.acoustic-visions.com/~acoustic/products/subwoofers/pre_finished/pinnacle_kilimanjaro.shtml The link to the HS500 subwoofer amp is : http://www.acoustic-visions.com/~acoustic/products/subwoofer_amplifiers/adire_h500/ It will take ~3 weeks for delivery, so the end of August/beginning of Sept can't get here soon enough. Thank for the posts and insight. Everyone's input is greatly appreciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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