Speaker Wire

[Lankhoss]

Radiob,

I was going to post something similar. To sum it up.......you will notice greater differences when comparing speaker wire on higher quality components.

When I had my Technics receiver and Kenwood speakers, everything pretty much sounded the same.

When I went to my Pioneer Elite receiver and Klipsch 100db sensitive speakers, there was a noticeable difference with EVERY cable I swapped out (did it 1 by 1) with the exception of my optical cable.

[Harry11]

To be honest i am completely torn now. Of course i would love to go into Home Depot and buy the lowest gauge wire at a good price but if i can get a little better quality for a little more, is it worth it?

Guys I appreaciate all the feedback on this. I never expected this many posts!

Thanks!

[Strabo]

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On 8/10/2004 6:00:45 PM Gramas701 wrote:

the best conducters of electricity go as follows

plat

silver

gold

copper

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I don't think I've ever seen Platinum rated as a conductor before. But every list I've ever seen puts silver first and gold third after copper.

The reason for using gold over copper or silver is it's resistance to corrosion and oxidation, not because it's a better conductor.

Edit: Do a seach of the forum and you will find that this topic comes up monthly. I did, and found that platinum is actually rated fourth after gold.

[Malcolm]

This topic always stirs up a lot of controversy...

I would suggest you go ahead and buy some inexpensive wire and enjoy your speakers for a while and then decide whether you want to try something else. Take the time to research this subject to your heart's content. If you do decide to try something else later you will not be out much.

FWIW I have 12 gauge architectural cable like Trey mentioned in my walls, except they are two conductor cables, each homerunned to the amp. The wire between the wall and the speakers/amp is 12 gauge white lamp cord. It has the advantage that even the cheap stuff does not corrode the copper wire like cheap clear cable will, and in my case, is less obvious against walls and carpet.

[Ray Garrison]

I'd go to Home Depot or the local equivalent, buy two different types of wire, both of reasonable gauge but different construction and materials, and see if you hear any difference.

If they sound pretty much the same, then just buy whatever is of sufficient gauge, looks okay, and is flexible enough to work with and be done with it.

If they sound different, you have entered the 7th circle of Hell and you will forever be tweeking your system, because *EVERYTHING YOU DO* will effect the sound, for better or worse, and you will find yourself going from wire to wire, interconnect to interconnect, DAC to DAC, painting CD's with green markers, de-gaussing your CD's, fiddling with absolute polarity, and in general pursuing an elusive waif who flits from component to component, forever tempting you with the thought that there's something just a little bit better to be had... God help me I've been chasing her for 19 years, and every time I think I have her in my grasp, she turns into a faint mist of reason that seeps through the cracks in my resolve, and I start the cycle yet again...

[doudou]

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On 8/10/2004 9:55:32 AM Jay481985 wrote:

??? gold is not a better conductor of electricity then copper. silver is though but tarnishes rather easily

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i made some studies in physics mesurements.i totaly agree with you, gold bring nothing.silver may bring a little thing at high frequencies but the improvement is so little that i bet it can t be heard.

people who make expansive wire must justify their price, even if the gold effect is a lie.it seems that all the way of earning money are good for them.

[doudou]

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On 8/10/2004 1:09:13 PM D-MAN wrote:

We are clearly divided into two camps: the pro-wire crowd and the "wire is just wire" crowd.

Here is my PRO-WIRE argument (again)...

Wire is not just wire.

Length, diameter, structure (winding style), and metalurgy all have an impact on the conductivity of wire. Even the type of insulation used can have an effect.

Also if wire was just wire (and hence, conductance is just conductance and is equal for all wires), then there would presumably be nothing such as "super-conductivity", which flies in the face of science, for there could be nothing that one could do to enhance conductivity, period. The fact that conductivity varies with temperature is indicative that wires are subject to environmental variables, too.

Wires of all sorts have variances in conductance that have to do with a variety of things. If you don't think so, then why are there differences in various lightbulbs, fuses, and (gasp) tubes, semi-conductors, IC chips, capacitors, resistors, inductors, transformers, power lines, AC power cables, and amplifiers, tuners, cd players, receivers, preamps, speakers, tv's, relays, and other things that require electrical conductance in order to operate (that is, perform work)? Why don't they all use the SAME EXACT WIRE in them? In all applications, if wire was just wire...

Why do metals vary in conductance? Why do they coat the inside of radar and microwave waveguides with silver? Why does diameter have anything to do with current flow? Why is copper better than lead? The electrical valence is DIFFERENT on a atomic level. Physical differences, undeniably factual, tested, proven.

Ever smelled the burning wiring in a car? Ever blown a fuse?

Ok, we all have, but the RESISTANCE to current flow was the culprit. We can all see that wires have a set of operational LIMITS to the amount of current (due to the RESISTANCE inherent in the wire) that it can take without catostrophic results. It should be plainly seen by all that there are methods that can be employed to OPTIMIZE the ability to conduct current at certain frequencies or ranges.

Here's the short answer:

Wire is NOT just wire. Current requirements vary with the application which includes voltage, current, and frequency, and so does the conductivity requirements on the wire. Choose the wire most appropriate to the application.

This leads us to the SPEAKER CABLE issue; 20Hz to 20KHz or so at several hundred watts (let's assume). Why would 12 gauge wire be better than 28 gauge given the same brand and type? If 12 ga. is good, wouldn't 8 be even better? If wire was just wire, this wouldn't be the case.

Conductivity, kids...less resistance. And conductivity can be optimised.

DM

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you re right on some point:

-material is important for a wire

-the method used to make the wire is important

but don forget that some improvement are so tiny that they cannot be feel by a human being.

forthermore for audio we don t often use long wire.

using silver wire for high frequencies can make a noticeable difference if you use wire that make some kilometers but for 5 meter lenght wire, you won t see any change, exept your empty wallet

[doudou]

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On 8/10/2004 6:00:45 PM Gramas701 wrote:

the best conducters of electricity go as follows

plat

silver

gold

copper

now if you ever go to other forums where the people are a little bit more techy, you will find that the reason that people use gold connecters is because the sound tends to be warmer when sound is passed through the connection where as the silver connections are not only a much softer material and break easier but the sound is cold and it tends to have a anegatie effect..... but then again I am preaching the good word to (for the most part) people who believe there is no difference between home depot wire and name brands. Which is find because everyone here can think for themselves just as I do.

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unfortunatly, it s not as simple as you think.

conductivity depends on the frequencies you run into the wire.

for exemple for low frenwuencies coper will be better than silver, but for high frequencies it s the opposite.

[Cal Blacksmith]

Hey while we are talking about microscopic differences that are there on paper but no one has ears good enough or equipment good enough to hear the difference with, lets not forget that we can spend big money on fancy POWER CORDS! Yes lets forget about the 30 miles of transmission lines, thousands of customers tens of thousands of connections an un determinable number of air conditioners, fans, motors and electronic devices polluting our power source, lets concentrate on the last 6 feet of wire to our equipment and cure all of the worlds problems with that magical 6 feet of audiophile grade power cord! Yes on paper we can PROVE that it is cleaner to use, but in the real world, GET A LIFE!

[Lankhoss]

I actually bought a Monster HTS1500 power strip, and it made a SUBSTANTIAL difference in my audio and video. It eliminated a lot of "bursts" in my audio (especially to the subwoofer) and leveled everything out, making transitions sound MUCH better. It also eliminated all bleed in and general crappy reception from my TV channels as well. It now almost looks like I have satellite on my TV, and I only have straight analog cable. There's not a single channel on my lineup that has one line of fuzz or grain going through it. I realize that's partially due to the fact that I have a good cable signal, but the reception on ALL channels significantly improved once I added the power filter. There is absolutely NO OTA bleed in interference anymore, which is a big problem in my area.

Anyway, I don't know if it's that magical power cord or what exactly.......but whatever it is, really made HUGE difference in everything I plugged into it.

By the way, I sent you a PM Harry. Check your messages on your profile and get back to me, thanks!

[Cal Blacksmith]

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On 8/11/2004 8:02:05 AM Lankhoss wrote:

I actually bought a Monster HTS1500 power strip, and it made a SUBSTANTIAL difference in my audio and video. It eliminated a lot of "bursts" in my audio (especially to the subwoofer) and leveled everything out, making transitions sound MUCH better. It also eliminated all bleed in and general crappy reception from my TV channels as well. It now almost looks like I have satellite on my TV, and I only have straight analog cable. There's not a single channel on my lineup that has one line of fuzz or grain going through it. I realize that's partially due to the fact that I have a good cable signal, but the reception on ALL channels significantly improved once I added the power filter. There is absolutely NO OTA bleed in interference anymore, which is a big problem in my area.

Anyway, I don't know if it's that magical power cord or what exactly.......but whatever it is, really made HUGE difference in everything I plugged into it.

By the way, I sent you a PM Harry. Check your messages on your profile and get back to me, thanks!

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I wasn't talking about line filters/conditioners, a good one can indeed clean up the crappy power we get from the power co. No, rather I was refering to the cord that plugs our equipment to the wall or line conditioner, there are special cords that sell for BIG$$$$$$ but do squat except for the placibo effect that it has on the buyer and the HIGH END CAR that the manufacturer of the cable drives

[doudou]

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On 8/11/2004 7:43:35 AM cablacksmith wrote:

Hey while we are talking about microscopic differences that are there on paper but no one has ears good enough or equipment good enough to hear the difference with, lets not forget that we can spend big money on fancy POWER CORDS! Yes lets forget about the 30 miles of transmission lines, thousands of customers tens of thousands of connections an un determinable number of air conditioners, fans, motors and electronic devices polluting our power source, lets concentrate on the last 6 feet of wire to our equipment and cure all of the worlds problems with that magical 6 feet of audiophile grade power cord! Yes on paper we can PROVE that it is cleaner to use, but in the real world, GET A LIFE!

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that s exactly what i m trying to put a stress on (with my very poor english):

there are difference, but they are so little that they cannot be heard in a home theatre.

as you said there is so much factor in real life wich can act on how our system sounds that the difference between a 1000$ and a 0.5$ wire of 5 meters long would be unhearable.

people who sells the wire show us the prove on the paper that their wire sounds better than the other.unfortunatly physics fact are often so tiny that a human being cannot see them without some special equipment.

[JJkizak]

Gold is primarily used for flashing the inside of waveguides to

prevent corrosion. It is used on Monster cables because it looks nice.

Gold is also used on the inside of Styroflex High power RF transmission Lines.

Other high power uses are chrome plating over nickel plated Buryllium.

By the time the steel RCA connector starts to corrode in your amp its time

to upgrade anyway. The type of material in the connector for audio purposes

is tantamount to shoveling sand against the tide.

JJK

[D-MAN]

I am running 12 ga. copper speaker wire on my surrounds, I don't consider the speaker wires to be critical for HT surrounds as I do the 2 front mains, where I use better wire for the 2 channel system which I use for critical listening (stereo).

I would concentrate the more expensive wire (if any) on the 2 channel mains. Those should be your best speakers anyway?

Due to the longer runs involved for surrounds it would not be economical to use a more expensive wire for the benefits you will get, especially on the back channels due to the nature of the soundtracks, IMO. But that's just my opinion.

DM

[Tom Adams]

Harry11 - Here's a question I think you should ask yourself when contemplating your speaker wire purchase (especially in light of the responses here).

How would you know what you're missing if you didn't know what it is you are missing?

You go to Home Depot or Best Buy or where ever and you have X dollars in your pocket and you need 25 feet of speaker wire. You find whatever kind of 12 or 14 gage speaker wire, the price is at or less than what's in your wallet, you buy it, you get home, you hook it up and enjoy it. Your next step is to look at room treatments knowing all along that the money you didn't blow on speaker wire will fund a project that can dramatically change the performance of your system.

Tom

[tankhokie]

harry,

go buy a run of "fancy" wire and a run of "home depot" wire.

hook one of each up to your mains and set them side by side, then hook them up to the A and B terminals of your amp.

then sit down and do an "A B" comparison. let your ears be the judge.

the "wire debate" opens up a big ole' can of worms.

test it for yourself is my advice, and return the "fancy wire" if it is the same as the "plain wire"

[radiob]

You would be fine with regular monster cable. You wouldnt be asking about speaker wires if you had the components that it would take to notice a difference. Klipch speakers seem to like 15-16 ga wire Lower ga. and youll usually loosen your base, solid wire and youll have mostly bass. Get good 16 ga oxegen free monster cable, youll be happy with it.

[doudou]

i think it s a good solution.

no waste of money with this solution, and you can decide with real fact.

[Cal Blacksmith]

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On 8/11/2004 6:02:59 PM radiob wrote:

You would be fine with regular monster cable. You wouldnt be asking about speaker wires if you had the components that it would take to notice a difference. Klipch speakers seem to like 15-16 ga wire Lower ga. and youll usually loosen your base, solid wire and youll have mostly bass. Get good 16 ga oxegen free monster cable, youll be happy with it.

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Go get $.29/ft speaker wire from home depot, you will be happy with it also and you will have enough money left over to buy some cds

[Griffinator]

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On 8/12/2004 7:25:08 AM cablacksmith wrote:

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On 8/11/2004 6:02:59 PM radiob wrote:

You would be fine with regular monster cable. You wouldnt be asking about speaker wires if you had the components that it would take to notice a difference. Klipch speakers seem to like 15-16 ga wire Lower ga. and youll usually loosen your base, solid wire and youll have mostly bass. Get good 16 ga oxegen free monster cable, youll be happy with it.

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Go get $.29/ft speaker wire from home depot, you will be happy with it also and you will have enough money left over to buy some cds

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If you're going to buy branded speaker wire, buy something other than Monster - Ultralink, Cobalt, there are dozens of brands that give you much better value and are better constructed than Monster.

A lifetime warranty with a $10 handling charge per cable just isn't worth it.