Audio Flynn Posted October 10, 2004 Share Posted October 10, 2004 When I was in Mexico City this week I was at a place in Zona Rosa Called the Angus Butcher house. In addition ot fine food and the prettiest female wait staff you could fantasize about; they had a 3 piece jazz band. I was about 25 feet from the band ( I would have liked to be closer), ceiling height was about 9 feet. Drums were unamplified. Horn Player ( clarinet and saxaphone) was miked minimaly. Electronic keyboard They were pretty sharp! The drums were defined by me to be more realistic because of the abscence of amplifiacation. The drummer was not a wimpy brush whacker; in fact in the hour and a half I watched and listened he never used brushes. To reproduce the live drum spl, attack and decay with my Chorus IIs in my listeneing room at 12 feet would require about 14 watts certainly more watts would be required if I was trying to reproduce a Rock drummer at 25 feet. I am not just looking to play the music; I am looking to recreate the nearfield live instrument. For me it would be disappointing to be 100 feet away from an unamplified instrument. Most rooms ( non theater) would absorb all of the highs and lows at 100 feet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndyKlipschFan Posted October 11, 2004 Share Posted October 11, 2004 Loved the Zona Rosa... Spent many a long nights there when I lived in Mexico City. Great restaurants great live music.. A home run! I would say of a un amplified room.. Anywhere 8- 20 feet back depending on how spread out the band is and room acoustics. Main thing is you enjoyed it, and heard great music too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piranha Posted October 11, 2004 Share Posted October 11, 2004 Why and for how long were you living in Mexico City? Apparently the Zona Rosa is apparentll a rockin place? It's not really Mexico though. Too much Tequila? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted October 11, 2004 Share Posted October 11, 2004 His wife banishes him there about once a month ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piranha Posted October 11, 2004 Share Posted October 11, 2004 Audio or Indy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndyKlipschFan Posted October 11, 2004 Share Posted October 11, 2004 I was there "eons" ago as a college student. (85 86) It is a wonderful place, more "Americanised Mexican" as far as a great places to eat and hear music etc., etc. I have been back a few times as well. Last time was in the late 1990's. Mexico City is just an awesome place, great people, way overcrowded yes... Just an amazing city IMO.. México City has the most active nightlife scene of all Mexican cities. You have an almost endless choice of options. The music scene boasts jazz clubs, loud all-night discos, Mariachi music, Flamenco, Cuban and salsa clubs, classical concerts, opera, philharmonic orchestras, romantic trios, chamber music and more. Would you like to dance? This city has dance clubs, rock & roll bars and a lot of the upscale restaurants have their own dance floors. Broadway style theatre presentations, big name rock concerts, folkloric dinner shows, mariachi shows and Flamenco shows all vie for your attention at night. Many of the larger hotels have adjoining discos or lobby bars with some surprisingly high quality live entertainment. The nightlife scene starts late, many clubs and discos don't open until after 10 PM and they go till the wee hours of the morning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piranha Posted October 11, 2004 Share Posted October 11, 2004 I agree. Mexico City is certainly much different and a better reflection of modern Mexico than the border towns are. i.e. Mexicali, Piedras Negras, Ciudad Juárez, Nogales, Tijuana etc. Did NAFTA work? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audio Flynn Posted October 11, 2004 Author Share Posted October 11, 2004 I think NAFTA is a long process, maybe decades. Like anything people want a quick complete solution. 1. Middle income people buy new cars, some are financed. No one can finance a house though. 2. People are cognizant of buying what they produce to a minimal degree. They really avoid buying Chineese goods. 3. Hopefully less are moving to the USA than in years past. I am not sure. +++++++++++++++++++++++ Traffic in Mexico City just is just as bad as you could fathom. Rush hour is all day long and goes into the night; it slows down about 10:00 PM. Rain in the rainy season of late june through october can make a .5 hour drive into a 3 hour debacle. All the smog the children breathe makes me concernd life expectancy will actually reduce in mexico City in the coming years due to cancer deaths. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ But the music and the food and the chicas are more fun than the USA in most cities. And yes... Even weekday partying does not start until 11:00 and can go until 4:00 or 6:00 AM. I am geting to old to be out past 2:30 AM without a sizable nap the next day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audio Flynn Posted October 11, 2004 Author Share Posted October 11, 2004 My nearfield drum kit listening oppurtunities must be more frequent than most of the forum memebers. Any takers on accoustic guitar? Michael Hedges Stephen Stills Accoustic guitar takes about 50 percent of the power needed to accuratley reproduce the drum kit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Speaker Posted October 12, 2004 Share Posted October 12, 2004 One of my favorite things in Ciudad de Mexico is the Aztec Dancers in the Zocalo. With the drums, ankle-rattles, and the incense pervading through the air, Trance music at its best. I love Mexican music (well, not every style), its a major portion of what I own, its so diverse, and greatly fills a void in music north of the border, with its heart-felt lyrics and melodies. Where have all the melodies gone? Long time passing. Where have all the melodies gone? Long time ago. Where have all the melodies gone? Gone to Mexico everyone.... Something worth going to near Xochimilco is the museum of Dolores Olmeda Patino, Diego Riveras Companion. She had a big Hacienda, where today, peacocks roam the grounds and the house is a museum where many of Riveras paintings are displayed, but even better, it has the worlds largest collection of his wife Frida Kahlos paintings. Ive always marveled at how Mexico City functions the way it does with something like 21 million people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audio Flynn Posted October 12, 2004 Author Share Posted October 12, 2004 Ive always marveled at how Mexico City functions the way it does with something like 21 million people. ++++++++++++ Some people think 26 -32 million not including Toluca or Puebla. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Robinson Posted October 12, 2004 Share Posted October 12, 2004 ---------------- On 10/11/2004 7:21:47 PM Audio Flynn wrote: Any takers on accoustic guitar? ---------------- I love acoustic guitar ... Try Antonio Forcione on the Naim label. Fabulous recordings, even better performer. He's carrying on the tradition! Love Leo Kottke as well but the recordings seem a bit flat. His performances are always top shelf. Never seen a guy bend acoustic strings like him, and overlay rythyms like he does. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audio Flynn Posted October 12, 2004 Author Share Posted October 12, 2004 Chris; At what power level, distance and speakers for you to perceive the soundfield as realistic? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artto Posted October 12, 2004 Share Posted October 12, 2004 I seriously doubt 14 watts per channel into a pair of Chorus IIs is capable of accurately reproducing a jazz drummer at 12 feet. Dont forget, most commercially available recordings do not have the dynamic range of a live performance. The transient response is just too great. As many of you know, I play professionally. And most are aware of my listening room, which has, on occasion, afforded me the opportunity to use the room for recording and rehearsal. I have, on several occasions over the years had drum kits located in front of the Belle Klipsch center speaker. I can tell you as a matter of fact, to get the system to sound like a real drum kit on something like a drum solo, takes just about all the rated power the three 50 watt tube amps can deliver. Now, if youre talking about recreating the sound of the live drum kit as if it were some distance away, say, 25-50 or more, as if it you were in a night club, then the power requirements to produce the transients can be substantially reduced. Most recordings also use multiple microphones close to many of the drum components. For a realistic test of drum kit playback I use the Sheffield Lab Track Record. With this recording I know that I can achieve playback quality that is very difficult to discern if the sound is live or not. And since Ive had real drum kits in the room for comparison.. BTW, Michael Hedges acoustic guitar is not so acoustic. He uses a lot electronic effects and is essentially always amplified. And I have to say Rick, IMO youre way off base if you think acoustic guitar would take about 50% of the power required to reproduce the drum kit (unless the drums are being played quietly with brushes or something). Its far less. Like I said, most commercial recordings that most of us are used to hearing come no where near capturing the dynamic range of a live drum kit. As far as how far away I like to sit goes, that depends on the band, the room, and how much, if any amplification and/or sound reinforcement is used. There are very few truly acoustic band performances anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artto Posted October 12, 2004 Share Posted October 12, 2004 ---------------- On 10/10/2004 6:40:22 PM Audio Flynn wrote: For me it would be disappointing to be 100 feet away from an unamplified instrument. Most rooms ( non theater) would absorb all of the highs and lows at 100 feet. ---------------- Not true. In a room that large, you most likely are going to be hearing the direct sound from their respective sources well before any reflected (attenuated) sound reaches your ears. Thats one of the advantages of a large room. Some of the acoustical problems we encounter in smaller spaces are not as much of a problem or simply do not exist (ie: low frequency mode problems). If anything, the audience can often have more effect on the acoustics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audio Flynn Posted October 12, 2004 Author Share Posted October 12, 2004 I seriously doubt 14 watts per channel into a pair of Chorus IIs is capable of accurately reproducing a jazz drummer at 12 feet. Dont forget, most commercially available recordings do not have the dynamic range of a live performance. The transient response is just too great. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Arrto; I was perhaps unclear. Jazz drummer............25-30 feet 2 channel sitting position......12 feet from Chorus II Far too much overly compressed music in the "mass" market place. Michael Hedges camer from a stream of conciousness thought. Maybe Will Ackerman is more of a truer accoustic guitar sound. The Martin D 28 I have heard live at 12 feet can be reasonably reproduced by my humble system with the proper software source. I was not intending to be correct. Just prompting thought. Your drum comments would be right on for a solid pounder. This guy in Mexico City rarely hit a tom and really did not attack the snare. Band leader played the clarinet and the drummer was restrained enough to complement it without being overpowering. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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