swells Posted October 22, 2004 Share Posted October 22, 2004 Has anyone tried the Al Klappenberger crossover design for the Heresy? I was concidering upgrading my crossover, but I am concerned about his design changine the Heresy to 4 ohm. The cost looks to be ~ ~170CAD/cross-over plus misc. i.e. plywood, terminal board binding post, cable ties, shiping etc. Has anyone just upgraded the original design using solen fast cap etc? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frzninvt Posted October 22, 2004 Share Posted October 22, 2004 You don't need a full blown replacement if you don't want it. You can indeed swap out the original caps with better ones of the same value. It depends on what you are trying to accomplish sonically as to which caps you should choose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-MAN Posted October 22, 2004 Share Posted October 22, 2004 The ALK is an A-type upgrade crossover for the Khorn, LS and/or Belle. The Heresy would have different crossover points than those, so I would say don't do it. Maybe Al, Dean, or Bob Crites would be able to help you out. They are the big boys when it comes to crossovers... Hopefully they'll chime in. DM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swells Posted October 22, 2004 Author Share Posted October 22, 2004 ALK has a number of different crossovers. one for the khorn one for the belle & lasala, and one for the cornwall I that can be used with the type E for the Heresy I with a resistor swap. What am I trying to accomplish? Perfection! LOL no, really, I find that male vocals sound like there is a filter or bloody big foam ball on the end of the microphone. any other improvements would be great. I find that most female vocals sound fine. as far as cost, if I am replacing parts, I wouldn't mind $50 to $100 per filter. I think the original is fine but could use some new parts unless someone some has experienced the ALK crossover and says it makes a world or diff. I have listened to a number of speakers locally with prices up to $1,800 $2,000 only to come home and verify my thoughts, they are no match for my Heresy. I have to say that I have only gotten the chance to listen to pair or RF-5 a couple of years ago. I was impressed, but that's closer to $2,700. So to spend 150 or 200 on the crossover seams small in comparison. However, if there is no notable difference, I would probably be disappointed. Maybe I should start saving for a pair of khorns, but until then I am going to try and improved on the clarity of my Heresy. My problem is then which parts can be replaced with what. The 2.5mH inductor with a 12 gauge wound solid copper inductor Or what about litz wire Inductor? The two two 2.0uF Capacitors can I use solen fast caps or the Hovland Music cap? And what about the 33uF on the woofer, does it need to be updated. Any information would be very much appreciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3dzapper Posted October 22, 2004 Share Posted October 22, 2004 I replaced the caps in my '84 Heresy (1.5's) E-2 networks with new Film and Foils. It is worth the time and trouble. For the 2.0uFs stick with good film and foils, the Hovlands, PPT Theta, Etc. For the 33uF I used a 30uF and a 3uF F&F. Solens would work well in this position. I used the stock bass inductor and autoformer since the bass in a Heresy is limited by the cabinet design. I didn't feel it would improve measurably and I use my Klipsch SW-15 sub with the Heresys for the bottom octave. I also removed the K-53s and replaced them with damped K-700s and K-55s to match my Khorns; Damped the woofer basket; Applied 10"x10" dynamat type material to the back and sides and put in a bit of "angel hair". The improvements are well worth the time and effort. They actually sound nearly as good as the Khorns, just smaller. Rick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3dzapper Posted October 22, 2004 Share Posted October 22, 2004 Rick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3dzapper Posted October 22, 2004 Share Posted October 22, 2004 Rick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swells Posted October 22, 2004 Author Share Posted October 22, 2004 Thanks Rick, That sounds great. I assume that there is a quality difference between the 2.0 uF Hovland and the solen Film & foil. I think I will go with you theory on the Inductors for now. I'll leave that for another day. edit Just came from Madisound, sounds like quite a hastle ordering from Canada. Brokerage fees etc. Brings me back to solen. is there a difference in quality or is it mostly preference. I can order the solen parts right from here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3dzapper Posted October 22, 2004 Share Posted October 22, 2004 Try the Parts Connexion they're in Canada: http://www.partsconnexion.com/partscomponents.php Rick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Mobley Posted October 22, 2004 Share Posted October 22, 2004 I ordered direct from Solen in Canada. It was slower but I don't recall paying any brokerage fees or duties. If there were any it didn't amount to much. It was slow though. If you could get them stateside I would. Did I mention slow? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3dzapper Posted October 22, 2004 Share Posted October 22, 2004 Tom, I think because of the National Sales Tax it is more difficult to get goods shipped into Canada than out. Rick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted October 23, 2004 Share Posted October 23, 2004 Regardless of what you find in there -- I would revert back to the simple Type E. Schematic attached. Do NOT use Solens, they sound absolutely horrid in HF circuits. If you are a high SPL listener -- I would shy away from the Hovlands. Though they are some of the cleanest sounding caps you can get, they tend to brighten things up a bit -- especially with horns. They are best suited for low to moderate listening levels. So, if you are not a volume freak, they are the way to go. A good alternative is a very high quality metallized polypropylene type (thick film), like the Audience Auricap. You get most of the cleanliness found with polypropylene, with a presentation that's not unduly forward. E.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted October 23, 2004 Share Posted October 23, 2004 BTW, I would dump the stock inductor for a high quality steel laminate type. The improvement is small, but discernable. http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=266-908 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swells Posted October 23, 2004 Author Share Posted October 23, 2004 Thanks for the link Rick, I'll look around in there. And yes, I live in Canada. It just seams to be easier and for the most part quite a bit cheaper if I can fine a Canadian supplier. From what I have seen in the other products I have bought or researched, The price from a Canadian supplier seams to work out to the exchange, cheaper delivery and the cost of brokerage is gone. Hi Dean, thanks for chiming in. I remember one of the first posts that I read here was your upgrade to the crossover in a brand new pair of RF-7s. I thought that was quite daring at the time, and I guess I still do. Here I am now getting up the courage to tear into a twenty-year-old crossover. I guess thats why I considered ALs crossover, all new and if it doesnt work I could always put the old one back in. As far as listening levels, I built a pair of horns using a 3watt RS driver, which is capable of surpassing my listening level. Not to say that I would like to turn it up at some point though. I assume that normal listening is under 5 watts, certainly for critical listening. I may have gone past 10 for half a song a handful of time in the past 15 years. That said, I do find the Heresy to be bright enough as is. so if the Audience Auricap if a suitable replacement to the Music caps, Ill have to see if I can find them. Steel laminated inductor, would that be better than a 12 gauge air core? Ok Type-E, I can dump the 33uF cap. edit AURICAP 2.0 200v $9.95 AURICAP 2.0 600v $31.95 What is the difference between the 200v & 600v? Which do I need? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Mobley Posted October 23, 2004 Share Posted October 23, 2004 you can use the 200V. at 8 Ohms one watt is 2.8 volts. I got my LaScalas up to about 8V one time, but wouldn't care to do it again. Not indoors anyway. it was pretty loud. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dflip Posted October 23, 2004 Share Posted October 23, 2004 Parts connexion, www.partsconnexion.com, is located in Oakville, Ontario but only ship goods from their address. You can't go there and pick up the merchandise. I replaced the inductor with a 12 awg solid wire version from Solen, but it wasn't cheap (S112.4 2.4 mH $38.04 Cdn) from the Solen website, www.solen.ca. 14 awg (S142.4) will run you $23.07 each. I agree with Dean about the Hovlands, very clear, but they can be bright depending on the amp and preamp that you are using. Jensen PIO's take a little off the top end which is quite nice when I am listening to Blue Note jazz cd's. The Hovlands were just too painful to listen to for an extended period of time because of the ear bleeding high end. Although with the Scott LK-72, the Hovlands sounded very good, quite different from the McIntosh MC-30's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emmet2u Posted October 28, 2004 Share Posted October 28, 2004 I have done the ALK xover on my Heresys. The difference is amazing! The mids and highs are both more defined and less harsh. I used Solen for the lows and both North Creek Harmony and Sonic Cap for the mids and highs. I think that caps are a VERY subjective item, and I can only use my experience when recommending them. I have used Auric, Hovland, North Creek, Sonic, Bennic, and a few others. They are all good, some better suited to one task or another. The Bennic is fine in the right application, but it should not be in the signal path (YMMV). I highly recommend the ALK crossover for a Heresy upgrade! Have fun! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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