edwinr Posted December 24, 2004 Share Posted December 24, 2004 ---------------- On 12/24/2004 12:20:07 AM Seadog wrote: A CD I recently bought that I really like is THE MORE I SEE YOU with Oscar Peterson, Benny Carter, Clark Terry, Ray Brown, Lorne Lofsky, and Lewis Nash. ---------------- I'm a long time Oscar Peterson fan. In my view one of the most under rated musicians in the world. Not quite avantgarde enough for some true jazz aficionados. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edwinr Posted December 24, 2004 Share Posted December 24, 2004 ---------------- On 12/24/2004 12:19:02 AM bclarke421 wrote: Jeeesus. This exchange between Paul, Gary, Allan, and myself has nothing to do with pauln's question, really. ---------------- I respect your view. I'm keeping out of the heavyweight debate. That doesn't mean to say that, like others, I don't read the debate, and make up my own mind. I stand by my point that a newbie with a legitimate question, or a stated opinion, should be entitled to be treated with a little more consideration and respect, rather than be derided in some form or other. If Paul had made an undeserved, derisive remark about a newbie's perceived lack of musical knowledge, I would have posted my concern to him. But Paul didn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan Songer Posted December 24, 2004 Share Posted December 24, 2004 ---------------- On 12/24/2004 1:04:07 AM edwinr wrote: I respect your view. I'm keeping out of the heavyweight debate. That doesn't mean to say that, like others, I don't read the debate, and make up my own mind. I stand by my point that a newbie with a legitimate question, or a stated opinion, should be entitled to be treated with a little more consideration and respect, rather than be derided in some form or other. If Paul had made an undeserved, derisive remark about a newbie's perceived lack of musical knowledge, I would have posted my concern to him. But Paul didn't. ---------------- "Undeserved?" Well, if THIS comment about Coltrane circa 1961 didn't deserve a SOMEWHAT derisive remark than no comment does: "As a musician I recognise what he is doing here - it's called doodling - it's what tired burned out players resort to when their improvisational ideas don't come anymore. All musicians recognise this phoney style and despise it." This is NOT the question of a "newbie" looking for direction! The statement is SO stupid and obviously BAITING it sounds like it came directly from Paul Parrot. Could Paul have another secret identity? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edwinr Posted December 24, 2004 Share Posted December 24, 2004 ---------------- On 12/24/2004 1:15:40 AM Allan Songer wrote: "Undeserved?" Well, if THIS comment about Coltrane circa 1961 didn't deserve a SOMEWHAT derisive remark than no comment does: "As a musician I recognise what he is doing here - it's called doodling - it's what tired burned out players resort to when their improvisational ideas don't come anymore. All musicians recognise this phoney style and despise it." This is NOT the question of a "newbie" looking for direction! The statement is SO stupid and obviously BAITING it sounds like it came directly from Paul Parrot. Could Paul have another secret identity? ---------------- Thanks for responding ,Alan. I appreciate it. I can't answer your questions - because I don't have the answers. To my mind my point is still relevant. The fact that you have taken issue with this newbie's opinion (if he is a newbie) is a little off putting to me or any other newbie, if I stated such an opinion. Being derisive is unhelpful. IF it is someone, as you suggest, baiting you, then I suggest that you are responding in just the fashion that they want. Please don't take any of my remarks the wrong way. As this is a forum, I feel I should be able to state my opinion freely, as long as I don't intentionally set out to offend anyone. I expect other people to read it and at least consider my opinion. You are passionate about your music, and that's to be commended. Regards, Edwin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garymd Posted December 24, 2004 Share Posted December 24, 2004 Being a relative newbie to jazz myself, I've discovered that I go through phases as I discover different artists and styles. It's only been about 2 years since I started listening seriously and I now have about 500 LPs, most original copies (they sound better!) and about 100 CDs for my commute. I started out initially listening to Coltrane because he could jam like no other. Just listen to Giant Steps and you'll know what I'm talking about. The guy could fit more notes into a bar then seemed humanly possible. It's more than just that but I'm not here to explain the music. I'm not very good at that. After gobbling up all I could find of Coltrane's music, I discovered the guys he played with at different stages of his career. That got me into Miles Davis who in turn got me to Cannonball Adderly. Then at some point Boomac sent me a copy of Duke Pearson's Tender Feelings which led to Wahoo and just about every other album he ever did including many on which he was only a sideman (as if Duke could ever be JUST a sideman). This is how I discovered Joe Henderson which was about the same time I discovered Dexter Gordon, Lou Donaldson, Curtis Fuller, etc., etc. Next thing I knew, I was listening to early Herbie Hancock who led me to Lee Morgan who led me to Hank Mobley and Jackie McLean. I'm still infatuated with the Morgan, Mobley, McLean, Hancock early to mid-sixties sound and I've bought just about everything I could find from that era. There's many, many, many musicians I've left out because there are just too many to list. Everytime I'd discover something new, Allan would give me advice and general guidance. He sent me LPs to check out. Some I sent back, most I bought. Boomac was doing the same thing I was at about the same time. We sent each other LPs and CDs and let each other know when the other HAD to get this album or that album. The point is, once you get started down this road and find out that you REALLY, REALLY love this music, a whole new world opens up to you and there's a seemingly endless quantity of music you never knew existed. It's like I wasted 30 years by limiting my listening to only certain types of music. I've also discovered classical music over the past couple of years but I find it more difficult to do on my own. When Larry and I get together and listen, it's wonderful. I'm learning quite a bit as he's a great teacher but it just doesn't grab me the same way and I find I need more guidance then I do with jazz. If you've made it this far, I suggest you go to bed now. I just finished wrapping presents and needed to wind down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edwinr Posted December 24, 2004 Share Posted December 24, 2004 That was a REALLY good post, garymd. Thanks, buddy. Have a really Merry Christmas. Edwin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben. Posted December 24, 2004 Share Posted December 24, 2004 Edwin, I hear what you're saying, and in a sense agree with regards to pauln's question. However, the kid gloves don't need to be used in excess. The guy deserved a bit of schooling. If he can talk smack about Trane after hearing about 1% of his published work, I think he should be able to take a little smack back. Your point is well taken, and Allan has (as has been pointed out several times by several members) gone out of his way to help those with sincere questions or curiousity in general. He has sent many records at his own expense to members who have since greatly broadened their musical avenues. This is a very good thing. Some of us around here treat dilletantes with less than full respect. That's life. I've been taken down a notch or two in some technical discussions here in the past. I deserved it, and admitted as such. Just my 2c. I appreciate the way you framed your objections, BTW. It's common courtesy, which the vast majority of members here have no problem with. Regards, Ben Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edwinr Posted December 24, 2004 Share Posted December 24, 2004 Thanks, Ben. I appreciate what you're saying. I've got no beef with Alan and I admire the man's expertise. At least with Alan and Paul, you know EXACTLY where you stand. I like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben. Posted December 24, 2004 Share Posted December 24, 2004 It seems Gary and I were writing simultaneously. While we shared a certain point, he proved yet again that he is a more positive individual than I. I've never picked a fight in my life, but have always had trouble walking away from one. Nice to see as always, Gary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garymd Posted December 24, 2004 Share Posted December 24, 2004 Thanks Edwin. Merry Christmas to you too! There's one significant point I left out. Imagine rock and roll where Robert Plant decides to put out an album and brings in Hendrix to play guitar, Keith Emerson on keyboards and Keith Moon on drums. 6 months later, Hendrix does an album and brings in John Bonham on drums, Phil Lesh on bass and Rick Wakeman on keyboards. 3 months later the same guys do an album but add Lennon and McCartney on vocals and replace Henrix with Jerry Garcia and Jimmy Paige. That's what these jazz greats did. With the exception of a few groups that stayed together for a few years at a time, they all played together, sat in on different albums, added a guy here or there. It was an amazing thing. Go to Tower records (or the equivalent) sometime and look in the jazz section. Check out the Lee Morgan album lineups. The Hank Mobley album lineups. Art Blakey. John Coltrane. Any of them for that matter. I could go on and on. It was something special for sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garymd Posted December 24, 2004 Share Posted December 24, 2004 ---------------- On 12/24/2004 2:08:31 AM bclarke421 wrote: It seems Gary and I were writing simultaneously. While we shared a certain point, he proved yet again that he is a more positive individual than I. I've never picked a fight in my life, but have always had trouble walking away from one. Nice to see as always, Gary. ---------------- Nah. I'm just a zombie right now. It's almost 2:30 in the morning and I have to get up at 8. I have no fight left in me. Good night all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edwinr Posted December 24, 2004 Share Posted December 24, 2004 Goodnight, guys... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve_L Posted December 24, 2004 Share Posted December 24, 2004 Great posts Gary , very similar to my own journey, only slightly different musicians at the start.. but real similar. I'm not much of the classical side either. Being a child of the sixties (graduated high school '68) I am saturated in rock and roll from that era', and my son loves that stuff too, so we have a great time with the rock and blues of the late 50s ~ mid 70s. Didn't start my journey into jazz until 90, when I was 40 years old, but the way I look at it, I prolly wasn't ready for jazz until then. I still don't get some of it. I'm not real big on Big Band. I'd love to love Ellington, but the music just doesn't move me like the small groups. I wish I got Monk, but I really don't and Mingus just a little bit. ..but Miles and Trane and Shorter and Hancock and Brubeck and Mulligan, Oscar Peterson and MJQ, Tyner, it's just a great journey. What's on my CD player right now? What a FABULOUS CD this is!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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