tpg Posted December 28, 2004 Share Posted December 28, 2004 Well, I finally splurged and went and bought a new receiver. I've been looking for quite some time now... Pioneer, Pioneer Elite, Onkyo, Integra, Marantz, Rotel, NAD, Denon, Yamaha, Harman Kardon, etc....... Too many choices. I called my local hi-fi dealer to ask about his Integra and Pioneer Elite line (he also sells Rotel and likes to push them, but I don't have $1300 for a receiver). He wanted $850 for a Pioneer Elite VSX-43TX. Not only is it last years model, but it was also lowest on the totem pole. I can get a brand new VSX-54TX for less than that! His Integra's, also a year old, were priced in the thousands... I suppose he doesn't think I know anything about the market... SO, I headed off to Best Buy to take a look at the Pioneer VSX-1014 (approx. a VSX-52TX) and the VSX1012 (approx. a VSX-45TX). They had neither... the Yamaha's were nice, but I would only spring for the 5760 or 5790... and I might not even like it anyway. So, I went to trusty old Circuit City and picked up a Harman Kardon AVR-335. Got everything hooked up and powered it up briefly for testing... sounds VERY clean and clear... very detailed. Haven't gotten a chance to crank it up yet, though... and still need to calibrate it. I hope it sounds warmer than my old Onkyo... Will test tomorrow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wyattearp Posted December 28, 2004 Share Posted December 28, 2004 Please advise on "tests." Am likewise shopping and also interested... Thank you in advance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrMcGoo Posted December 29, 2004 Share Posted December 29, 2004 The amp section of the H/Ks are quite good. The preamp sections have had problems in recent years with audio dropouts and reliability. The new xx5 models are supposed to fix these problems. Let us know how you like the new receiver. AVS members seem to like this new series. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enigma Posted December 29, 2004 Share Posted December 29, 2004 I personally love Yamaha. I'm about to buy my 2nd purchase on a receiver...this time I am going for a silver model to match my upcoming Klipsch RSX-4's. -ant Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marksdad Posted December 29, 2004 Share Posted December 29, 2004 yammies are a bright receiver, they have a different sound than your hk, the hk is cleaner and warmer, the yammies seem to dominate in the tweeter section and the bass seems overstated, cant stand the yammie sound, makes me end my sessions early, so i got rid of mine and went nad, any way just shop arond and make your ears happy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobbyT Posted December 29, 2004 Share Posted December 29, 2004 The newer Yamahas have a smoother sound and are not as bright as in the past. I have a 5760 that replaced a Denon 3802 and I love it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tpg Posted December 29, 2004 Author Share Posted December 29, 2004 I've listened to the Yamaha 5790 in Best Buy playing through the new Klipsch Synergy and it does sound pretty good, actually. It's a tad more than I wanted to spend, though... Heck, this H/K is a tad more than I wanted to spend. At the time of purchase, I felt fine about it... but I've been having nightmares all night about spending all that. I paid cash, in case you wondered... so I had all this cash... and now I have nothing. $2 only. I am somewhat sad... Well, I couldn't sleep so I got up early this morning and ran the EZSet, which did a fairly good job setting things up. It left my subs at 0dB, though, which is a huge no-no. I had to reset that... And it seems everytime I change sources or surround modes, the speaker settings change. In one mode, my mains will be set Large, in others, they are Small, Crossover points change... The HK menu is a tad hard to grasp, I think. Overall, it sounds very good. It is more detailed than my older Onkyo and slightly warmer, much more laid back in the highs, but not to the point that it would be lacking highs. They are still very much there, but less harsh than the Onkyo. The soundstage seems much deeper or wider as well. I played through some of the CD's in my changer (mostly Van Halen) and liked what I heard. I also started LOTR:FOTR Extended Edition in DTS but once again, the sub and speaker settings changed, so I had to fix that before my subs destroyed my house and themselves during the opening battle scene. One problem I've hit now... toward the end of the first disk at the Council of Elrond, when Gandalf begins talking in the "Black Speech" my 15" sub (a sonosub) sent the driver and wood plug shooting through the bottom of the tube onto the floor. SO... Now my main sub is no longer ready for action... I hope the driver is ok. It hit kind of hard on the surround and was playing at the time. Not really the receiver's fault... but... Surround sound sounds very nice... Very detailed, lush, I suppose... it is better than the Onkyo, for sure. A complaint I have... it seems that the Analog inputs are picking up some kind of noise. When I change to my DVD or CD player on the receiver, the speakers are dead quiet because both are hooked up optically. However, when I change to any analog source, the woofers play a pink-noise-like sound and the tweeters play a high-pitched squeeling/hissing noise. Only in the front three, though, surrounds are dead quiet. Have not figured this one out... I need to finish LOTR now... but first I guess I need to rebuild my sub. Joy...... Overall, I think this was a step forward from my older receiver... but the squeeling and pain in my wallet may send me back to my old receiver begging for forgiveness in the end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tpg Posted December 29, 2004 Author Share Posted December 29, 2004 After more time playing around with it... the mains now sound really warm and nice. However, it doesn't know I have a sub, as I had it off when I ran EZSet again. So, now it won't let me enable it without screwing all of my other settings up and automatically adding the sub to my DSP Off, Stereo only. When I want stereo only, I mean it... NO SUB. It doesn't seem to want to let me do this without enabling full-range on the mains throughout everything, which I definitely don't want for movies. HK needs to get their setup straight, I think. It is WAY harder than it should be. Maybe I just love my old Onkyo too much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tpg Posted December 29, 2004 Author Share Posted December 29, 2004 At this moment in time I am SERIOUSLY considering selling every piece of HT equipment I have and just quitting altogether. I've hit my last nerve with the setup/on-screen display of the HK. It will not do what I want it to do... the manual absolutely sucks, and I mean that. I have also been pushed past the limits by another person here at home... apparently it is juvenile to want to enjoy home theater. I am really beginning to hate this hobby. Really. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olorin Posted December 29, 2004 Share Posted December 29, 2004 I've been reading the manuals on these guys lately, and you should be able to set different crossover settings for each input. Naturally this doesn't help you if you're using the digital out from your DVD player for everything, but if you have a separate CD player you can attack it that way. If you use the DVD player for movies and music, can you use analog outs for CDs and digital for DVD? That would be another angle if it's available. O Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CAS Posted December 29, 2004 Share Posted December 29, 2004 I've always liked the look of the HK's. The only thing that bothered me is that the dealers in my area would always put them next to the likes of the dime store receivers, but then again I can't vouch for the knowledge of the sales people to begin with. The 335 and it's sisters do have a complicated instruction manual and the configurations are not as intuitive as on other brands (but I'm used to RXV series Yamaha receivers which may or may not be similar to the norm). This has been the only thing that keeps me from buying the HK's myself at this point. In other words: I feel your pain, but it's like when I get a new cell phone and it takes a good breaking in period to make it second nature again. Can't help with the other issue. Maybe a good chick flick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psg Posted December 29, 2004 Share Posted December 29, 2004 Stick with it. In the setup menu, you should be able to tell it to use a different setup for each input. Then it's a long and tedious process, but you'll get what you want. It's also not difficult to invoke the OSD and go into the speaker menu and set the sub to on to watch a movie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tpg Posted December 29, 2004 Author Share Posted December 29, 2004 It has been a bad day/week/month. My patients wear thin occasionally when I get to feeling like this... I feel a tad better now, though. I've got it set up now to know it has a sub and to use a sub... But I just have the sub off for music. It sounds really good... tons better than my Onkyo did. Sadly enough... (I was a fan of the Onkyo and am having trouble letting go) The bass is very solid now that I have it set up right (well, closer to right). I am enjoying it in stereo... I also watched the credits of LOTR just to listen to the soundtrack, essentially. My sub is not in wokrable order still, so watching the rest of the movie is out. Question: Do you have to have material playing on the source in order to set up options on that source only? When I change something with DVD selected, it also changes my CD settings. My wallet still hurts... I miss having money already. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteelerFan Posted December 29, 2004 Share Posted December 29, 2004 Just a little buyers remorse like everyone gets when they buy something new. It's just natural with so many choices out there. That's part of the reason I keep putting off buying the new sub I need badly. H/K makes a good receiver, and it mixes particulary well with Klipsch speakers. Hopefully you will get it figured out and end up being very happy with your choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tpg Posted December 30, 2004 Author Share Posted December 30, 2004 Well... I've been doing some listening the past few days and it does really sound good... but the menu/setup thing is still getting me. As I mentioned before, my sub broke down on me (driver flew out of the box while it was playing, yes it was downfiring, yes, the box was built poorly heh). So, I spent most of today rebuilding it. It shouldn't fall apart for another couple of months now. Well, the speaker setup is still giving me fits. I don't want my mains playing full range, which is what they are trying to do. I have the mains set as large, with small center and surrounds. Xovers for mains at 60Hz, center at 100Hz, surrounds at 80Hz, as determined by the EZSet thing. So, my mains shouldn't be getting much below 60Hz. BUT, they evidently are. I watched my left main speaker cones while watching part of LOTR... Sub was playing a lot, but the mains were moving quite a bit too. So, I guess the large setting overrides the crossover? I am a tad lost here... I am also thinking about returning the 335 and picking up the 235. By looking at the specs, they are basically capable of the same things, though the 235 has 5W less output per channel. But, if you look at the max power ratings on both, they are rated the same.... The 235 has fewer inputs and all, I know... but I don't have many things to hook up anyway. All I really want is the 8-channel inputs and outputs in case I decide to use it for a decoder later on. The hissing/ringing/staticy sound that the receiver produces out of the speakers when tuned to an analog source also bugs me quite a bit. From digital sources, it is great, though. Maybe I am just judging it too hard... And I think the lack of money is also still swaying my thoughts. I'll do some more testing tomorrow with the setup... too late to crank it now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicholtl Posted December 30, 2004 Share Posted December 30, 2004 This has been a very interesting read. TPG, not to find entertainment from your misfortunes, but it was funny to read how you went from super excited to midly annoyed to wanting to ditch home theater altogether. Talk about an emotional journey. So it sounds like EZset ain't so easy after all. If that's the case, going from the 335 to the 235 might not make any difference. You might want to switch to a different brand entirely. If you like the sound of HK, I'd say look no further than Pioneer Elite. Same clean, transparent, neutral sound, and they do not overestimate their power ratings either. As for your wallet-hurting issue, I hear ya. And especially at a younger age, it's nice to save up and have money. But I can also say that BECAUSE you're young, what else is money for? It's for spending it and enjoying it. Your hobby is HT, and if you have money, that's what it should go towards. Buy whatever receiver makes you happy and don't worry about the impact it made on your wallet. If you keep busting your balls over it, you'll never learn to enjoy anything. I say give the HK a little more chance, and if it really just pisses you off to the point of no return, then (haha) return it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skonopa Posted December 31, 2004 Share Posted December 31, 2004 ---------------- On 12/30/2004 9:28:51 PM tpg wrote: Well, the speaker setup is still giving me fits. I don't want my mains playing full range, which is what they are trying to do. I have the mains set as large, with small center and surrounds. Xovers for mains at 60Hz, center at 100Hz, surrounds at 80Hz, as determined by the EZSet thing. So, my mains shouldn't be getting much below 60Hz. BUT, they evidently are. I watched my left main speaker cones while watching part of LOTR... Sub was playing a lot, but the mains were moving quite a bit too. So, I guess the large setting overrides the crossover? I am a tad lost here... ---------------- If I understand how all this works correctly, but if you have your speakers set to "large", I thought the reciever will send a full-range signal to them in addition to sending a signal below the crossover setting to the sub. If you have your speakers set to "small", the recieveer will only send signals above the crossover point to them, and everything below to the sub. Thus, try setting your mains to "small" as well if you don't want them playing full-range. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tpg Posted December 31, 2004 Author Share Posted December 31, 2004 I do get a tad irrational sometimes when I get annoyed at things in my HT... Especially when more than one thing starts going wrong. I was also lacking sleep that day... My biggest complaint about Pioneer Elite is the price. My local dealer wants more for last years lowest end model than I can get this years mid-level model for. But, I do want to buy from an authorized dealer... so that is another issue. I don't think the cheaper price was from an authorized guy... Going for the 235 was just a way out... I could pay less to have the same troubles. But, because I was paying less, it wouldn't hurt so bad. As far as the large/small speaker issue... That makes sense to me. The only problem I've encountered with setting the mains to small, all works fine in DVD's, but when I want to listen to 2-channel stereo with no sub, my mains are still set small and do not play hardly any bass. Resetting it isn't a huge deal, no... but, I've been resetting the settings a couple times each day so far and am already tired of it. So, resetting everything just to switch sources is not going to fly. There has to be a way to save settings, though... I'll (gasp) re-read the manual... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrMcGoo Posted December 31, 2004 Share Posted December 31, 2004 TPG, In your position, I think that I would take the receiver back and get my money back. If you want Pioneer with warranty, there is always a way. OneCall.com is owned by a Pioneer Elite Dealer. They are not allowed to advertise the Elites over the Internet. Give them a call and see what they can do for you. It is only a matter of time before the Pioneer 1014TX comes into stock at a local store. OneCall.com had them in stock at $449 the last time I looked, but you would have to pay shipping. The Pioneer MCACC is excellent, and the menu structure is easy to use. Pioneer sounds good with Klipsch IMO. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tpg Posted January 2, 2005 Author Share Posted January 2, 2005 New rule... read manual when mostly awake. The first time I read the manual was when I got the receiver... it was my night-time reading before going to bed. The setup stuff didn't make a lot of sense then. I re-read it last night and got it set up how I want it... mains as large for CD, small for DVD. Works well. I am still trying to weigh the pros and cons of keeping this receiver. The hissing/high-pitched squeeling/staticy noise I get from any analog input bothers me a lot. I get the feeling that the pre-outputs might have this hiss as well, but I don't know for sure. I've heard about HK's having hissing problems. From my listening position, the hissing is audible and somewhat unbearable. It might just be my unit. Every review I've read of the newer HK's has not mentioned the hissing. What to do... maybe I'll just go back to my old receiver but buy the KLF-30's the local dealer has. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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