WILSON AUDIO

[Jay481985]

Check Above. It is straight from GM. BTW my brother is still at work.

[Jay481985]

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On 1/5/2005 2:56:29 PM Tom Adams wrote:

"Do you know what Goldman Sachs is? It is a stock analyst company, I rather believe my brother which has insider information then take your word of advice, sorry."

Yes - I know who Goldman Sachs is. And for your point of reference, my wife is a CPA with a specialty in finance. She's also the manufacturing financial controller for JCB Inc. and a damn fine cost analyst (which means she knows damn near as much about manufacturing as I do). I know what she goes through in reporting financials and I know the scrutiny that takes place during audits both interanal and external. Now that we got THAT out of the way, I will re-iterate, show me a certified audit report that substantiates your comment - i.e. put up or shut up. Or are you gonna be like so many folks that spout stuff, yet can't back it up. And when called on it, you get defensive and talk trash. My request is simple and your brother should be able to easily get what I ask for. Or is he just flapping his gums to impress his brother??? And if that's the case, you should kick your brother's *** for making you look bad.

"A precision CNC routing machine is still in the millions of dollars depending on type needed. And yes there is such grades of aluminum. Aluminum is not all the same. Though the word aircraft grade aluminum is uses and abused. Just like track tested, street legal race car is. Anyone who thinks their Monte Carlo is anything to the nascar version is just plain dumb. but here is a website that shows some of the various grades of aluminum and it's alloys.

http://www.ez.org/aluminum.htm

Depending on needs of a certain project, Aluminum is processed differently."

I'm a Manufacturing Engineer and my degree is in Mechanical Engineering. I have worked for an aircraft company for 20 years in both sheet metal and machining operations. Sorry for the "resume", but I figured you needed to know that I'm no "spring chicken". I'm fully aware of aluminum alloys and it's various material properties. And I'm here to tell you that there's no such thing as "aircraft grade" aluminum. The 7075-T6 or 2024-0 or T6511 or whatever that you buy from Alcoa is the same sh*t they sell us.

I'm puzzled where "CNC routing machine" came from. A CNC router is just that - a router numerically controlled by a computer. What I was referring to was parts manufactured by a CNC machine like a 3-axis Cincinnati Milacron or a CNC vertical boring mill or summat.

Anyhow...I look forward to your documented evidence supporting your brothers' remarks.

Tom

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I applaud you for being a Mechanical Engineer, I am currently attending RPI as undeclared engineer. I was just stating with the CNC router is the cost. A very precise one is still alot of money. Before you wrote that it was getting cheap.

The situation with the aluminium, I believe aircraft aluminum is a often used and abused word. But so is titanium and the promotion of it on the apple notebook. Notice they associated the word with superior strength, yet could not say aircraft grade due to the use of titanium alloy in aircraft parts and just titanium in the apple. Though I would not be surprised if military aircrafts do use a higer grade of aluminum.

And Tom I think we got off on the wrong note. Maybe we can come to better terms?

[Tom Adams]

Jay - on a balance sheet or financial report or whatever, a "loss" is represented by parenthesis. IOW, if my loss was one hundred dollars I would show it as ($100). That $995 figure is NOT in parenthesis - i.e. the number is positive or, as they say, "in the black".

But I do applaud you for (trying to) back up your claim.

As for the long term debt, I'm sure I know how that's derived, but it's one of those things that's hard to explain since one has to factor in depreciations and a bunch of other crap the wife has tried to explain to me. Believe me thoughwhen I tell you those are "paper figures".

I'm telling you Jay, GM is not losing money. Anyhow.....

I wonder how Wilson Audio speakers would stack up to the offerings from Legacy??

Tom

[garymd]

ps: One last nit pick. There's no such words as "alot" or "irregardless". It's "a lot" and just plain "regardless". Whew....I feel better now.http://forums.klipsch.com/idealbb/images/smilies/1.gif">

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Amen to that. It drives me crazy to hear educated people use that word. It happens all the time at work and it's everything I can do to keep from slapping that person upside the head when they use it in an attempt to sound intelligent. Is the term "upside the head" grammatically correct?

[Jay481985]

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On 1/5/2005 3:13:44 PM Tom Adams wrote:

Jay - on a balance sheet or financial report or whatever, a "loss" is represented by parenthesis. IOW, if my loss was one hundred dollars I would show it as ($100). That $995 figure is NOT in parenthesis - i.e. the number is positive or, as they say, "in the black".

But I do applaud you for (trying to) back up your claim.

As for the long term debt, I'm sure I know how that's derived, but it's one of those things that's hard to explain since one has to factor in depreciations and a bunch of other crap the wife has tried to explain to me. Believe me thoughwhen I tell you those are "paper figures".

I'm telling you Jay, GM is not losing money. Anyhow.....

I wonder how Wilson Audio speakers would stack up to the offerings from Legacy??

Tom

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Simply stated why would the word loss in parenthesis even be there then? And I guess lets not beat up a dead horse anymore. You have you ideas and I have mine.

[Tom Adams]

God how I just love the written word. It's so, so, imprecise and confusing.

Tom Brennan - I wasn't criticizing you for the use of "alot" or "irregardless". I apologize if that's how it was percieved. And I went to a Catholic school too. Ho-boy, I bet there's some stories we could tell. Yikes.

Jay - a machining center or milling machine or the like is much different than a CNC router. But my point is that the cost of producing a machined part has gone down significantly. That's a bonifide fact. Are the machines expensive? Absolutely. But that isn't the only factor in how much it costs to machine a gear set or a landing gear swivel. Programming time, set-up time, run time, operator wages, etc. all factor in. For example, I have a fitting that takes 3 hours to machine at a rate of $100/hour. But by changing the way it's machined, I can high-speed machine on a machine that has a rate of $50/hour and do it in 1 hour. My part costs goes from $300 ea. to $50 ea. And that's not unheard of. LOL...you'd be surprised what I can get parts made for in Mexico and China.

Tom

[Jay481985]

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On 1/5/2005 3:35:23 PM Tom Adams wrote:

God how I just love the written word. It's so, so, imprecise and confusing.

Tom Brennan - I wasn't criticizing you for the use of "alot" or "irregardless". I apologize if that's how it was percieved. And I went to a Catholic school too. Ho-boy, I bet there's some stories we could tell. Yikes.

Jay - a machining center or milling machine or the like is much different than a CNC router. But my point is that the cost of producing a machined part has gone down significantly. That's a bonifide fact. Are the machines expensive? Absolutely. But that isn't the only factor in how much it costs to machine a gear set or a landing gear swivel. Programming time, set-up time, run time, operator wages, etc. all factor in. For example, I have a fitting that takes 3 hours to machine at a rate of $100/hour. But by changing the way it's machined, I can high-speed machine on a machine that has a rate of $50/hour and do it in 1 hour. My part costs goes from $300 ea. to $50 ea. And that's not unheard of. LOL...you'd be surprised what I can get parts made for in Mexico and China.

Tom

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I heard recently that a US company that manufactures glass for CRT TVs had to close the doors because a Chinese company sold the glass cheaper then the US company can produce it

[WS65711]

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On 1/5/2005 3:17:08 PM garymd wrote:

Amen to that. It drives me crazy to hear educated people use that word. It happens all the time at work and it's everything I can do to keep from slapping that person upside the head when they use it in an attempt to sound intelligent. Is the term "upside the head" grammatically correct?

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That stuff bothers me too. It bothers me even more when it comes from the mouths of politicians while they're talking about NUCULAR power facilities!

[boomac]

I wish I could recall the name/number of the Wilson Audio speakers that I previewed for HT & two channel set-ups. I can't even venture a guess but here are a few things I am sure of.

1. They were expensive as heck. Mucho Ks

2. They didn't impress me as much as J-malotky's all Heritage HT System.

3. I prefer my Cornwalls to either of the two model Wilson Audio Speakers I previewed in two channel.

I realize this is all subjective but for my money, Klipsch is the best option and remember, the listening environment has a lot to do with it.

[mmiles]

Damn I'd hate to be the bank/s that GM owes 290 billion to.

Being in business for myself that "debt" can be many things such as: depreciation, loss on investments, obsolete techonologies, "one time write offs" from aquisitions and good old fashion loans.

BUT ENOUGH ALREADY. LETS GET B.O.T.

I wonder if there is some sort of internet based service or information center that compares speakers, amplifiers etc. Say for shared parts or third party manufacturing companies etc. That would be cool reading.

An example might be - What other speakers use the same tweeter as the $900 Polk? or What other speaker companies such as Madisound sell their tweeters to? That kind of stuff.

Please don't flame for spelling and grammer for those lurking.

Regards,

Mike

[Chris Robinson]

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On 1/5/2005 3:49:41 PM boomac wrote:

... and remember, the listening environment has a lot to do with it.

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In a lot of instances, the room IS the final determining factor about how a rig sounds, be it pricey or inexpensive.

The room should be the place that we all start when we have the "new design" option. I won't make that mistake again!

Not to beat the finance thing to death, but in a heavily capitalized business like the automotive industry, "cash flow" is critical. Depreciation in the car business is a huge component of cash flow.

I'm in the semiconductor business, and the problems are similar: billion dollar fabs, long-development cycles, short product cycles.

Nasty way to make money.

[TBrennan]

Jay----Yes, we've gotten off on the wrong foot and my fault too. I'm sorry.

[johnu]

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On 1/5/2005 3:22:32 PM Jay481985 wrote:

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On 1/5/2005 3:13:44 PM Tom Adams wrote:

Jay - on a balance sheet or financial report or whatever, a "loss" is represented by parenthesis. IOW, if my loss was one hundred dollars I would show it as ($100). That $995 figure is NOT in parenthesis - i.e. the number is positive or, as they say, "in the black".

But I do applaud you for (trying to) back up your claim.

As for the long term debt, I'm sure I know how that's derived, but it's one of those things that's hard to explain since one has to factor in depreciations and a bunch of other crap the wife has tried to explain to me. Believe me thoughwhen I tell you those are "paper figures".

I'm telling you Jay, GM is not losing money. Anyhow.....

I wonder how Wilson Audio speakers would stack up to the offerings from Legacy??

Tom

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Simply stated why would the word loss in parenthesis even be there then? And I guess lets not beat up a dead horse anymore. You have you ideas and I have mine.

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Just a technical note. The 995 is indeed a gain for 2003. There was a loss (146) for 2002 and a loss of (1167) in 2001. You ask "why would the word loss in parenthesis even be there then?" The reason is to explain the numbers for 2001 and 2002. This is standard notation for a balance sheet.

As a sidenote, if I lost a billion plus as in 2001, I would buy a used Bose system and bang my head with a 2x4 as additional punishment.

[Audio Flynn]

I just got done with the Mustang launch of the new model bumper system.

My only Ford V-8 right now is in the big VAN. 92,000 miles and humms. No noise from valves and bearings. Burns no oil.

For the money...

K Horns

VRDs

Blueberry

Mustang GT

Still less money than the top of the line Wilsons and a hell of allot more fun tp drive.

++++++++++++++++

When you have to spend capital to build cars it is probaly better to lose money on making them for a tax break.

Financing is just the game peoople play these days.

Bigger reason they lose money is they pay guys $ 130,000 a year to empty the trash and clean the urinals. Good old UAW.

[TBrennan]

Flynn---$130,000? Get real. I'm calling you on this.

When I was a Boilermaker I was making more than an Autoworker and to make $130,000 I had to work 7-12s most of the year.

So tell us what UAW scale at Ford is now and we can all figure how many hours a person would have to work to make $130,000.

By the way I love Fords. Loved my F-150, my Focii and my Crown Vic LX Sport. I looked at the 500 and the new Mustang yesterday, very nice cars.

[Audio Flynn]

Yes this guys was "working" 7-10 as a base and sometimes 7-12.

How much was spent sleeping and reading I can only immagine.

Old Ford Parts Plant now owned by Visteon.

[scott0527]

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On 1/5/2005 3:22:32 PM Jay481985 wrote:

Simply stated why would the word loss in parenthesis even be there then? And I guess lets not beat up a dead horse anymore. You have you ideas and I have mine.

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If I might beat that horse another time. The bottom line in finacial statements read "Profit(Loss)". If it's a loss, it goes in paranthesis. If it's a profit, it does not. That's why (Loss) is in paranthesis. If you start at the top of that Statement you pointed out, add the income lines and subtract the expense lines, you'll see the total comes out to + $950,000,000.

So according to those statements, in 2003, GM made $950,000,000 million on the automotive divsion. Hurraah!

[Ki Choi]

Guys:

Getting back to the original subject of Wilson Audio. I visited my local Wilson dealer in Seattle area and gave a listen to their Watt/Puppy 7 and their latest Alexandra (?). The manager whom I have dealt with before told me that when I buy the Alexandra, Mr. Wilson himself will fly and visit my home to fine tune the speakers placement and give me instructions on how to achieve the best sound. I decided not to invite Mr. Wilson to my house. It was too much trouble to transfer $125,000 from savings to checking that day.

Ki

[tkot]

the wilsons sound great, no question.

ive listened to them in a 2 channel powered by halcro stuff and .... truely

spectacular!!!

worth $175,000, includeing the halcro stuff? not for me!!

if i spent all my money on wilsons i wouldnt be able to afford this ford kickin'

chevy !!

jay

[Griffinator]

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On 1/5/2005 10:39:11 PM Audio Flynn wrote:

I just got done with the Mustang launch of the new model bumper system.

My only Ford V-8 right now is in the big VAN. 92,000 miles and humms. No noise from valves and bearings. Burns no oil.

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That's because American V-8's are still every bit as tough as any other engine on the market.

The problem (and the reason American vehicles have such a bad rap on durability) is that the little 4-cylinders (Escort, Focus, etc...) are pretty much toast by 100K miles.

Any engine that is basically designed to need both a water pump and a timing belt replacement every 50,000 miles isn't going to be particularly respected by the general public.

(edit)

I owned three Escorts in my life. Each and every one of them blew oil through the rings by 90,000 miles.

I own a Honda Civic, and used to own a Prelude - the Prelude I just gave away a few months ago (it's still on the road) - 290,000 miles, burns less than a quart a month. My Civic? 280,000 miles, and burns no oil.