Scp53 Posted January 7, 2005 Share Posted January 7, 2005 every day when i go places and do things i see so much crappy audio. car systems, home, etc. heres what REALLY heated me today that made me post this(sorry for any swearing but im venting steam): some kids at my HS(im a senior thank gaud) decided to build a dual 10" sub setup for a car. the one kid A already has a crappy system in his car- two DUAL 10" subs and some sony explode crap for component speakers. kid A is helping to build this system for kid B. kid B already has some crap-@ss 10"ers made by blue lightning or something. the cones(i saw them and looked at them closely) are flimsy as hell, small as magnet, spider looks prety ****ty, one of the drivers has smashed dustcap, and the fram is flimsy stamped steel. one thing that is really wierd is the dustcaps say 700 watts rms but on the magnet it says the woofer only takes 600 watts rms. wtf is up with that? anyway, they put them in a single chamber sealed box and ran f@#king 22 or 24 gauge wire to the drivers. wth is wrong with them. you dont even need a brain to know that subs are going to need something better than that. oh yeah, the cab is reasonable size has NO bracing(they didnt even know what bracing was) and when they mounted the drivers, they were using a drill. i was hoping that the drill would slip and go right through the cone. and another thing i should add, kid A was talking up his DUAL subs. lol. thinks there pretty decent. im like(did say this) dude, there $35 dollar woofers, there CRAP!!! he asked me if ive heard them and i said no. he replys saying i cant speak of them w/o listening to them. omg. now i think theyll go get a cheap amp and listen to it and think its the best thing. so any way, i dont think audio is going any where good. i think a VERY small percentage of people really appreciate decent audio. seems like most have turned into "how loud will they play" kind of people. i dont know of ONE person that really likes good speakers,etc. any comments on where the quality of sound is going? i hope NONE of us on the forum ever lose the want to have great sound! that would really be a shame. ok, im done. very sorry for the long post. i have seen a lot of crap and that made me post it. sometimes i want to cry(well not quite, but...) because of this stuff. scp53 note- on second thought maybe i should care less. they dont know what they're missin and its not my prob. but still... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daddy Dee Posted January 7, 2005 Share Posted January 7, 2005 SCP53, Don't worry, ranting is permitted here. What you have observed is the truth that indeed folks who really care about good sound make up a very small percentage of the population. Mr. Paul Klipsch observed this in an old interview I read earlier on this year. He was asked about how many people in the general public would appreciate his speakers. He responded with something like, the vast majority of the general public know nothing about sound and could care less. Car audio, like lots of home audio, is designed to look cool, even though it sounds like crap. Who buys all those jam boxes designed to look like they came off the bridge of a Klingon battle cruiser? Go figure. With your passion for audio, you have found yourself among those who will ALWAYS be giving the minority report. That's not always easy. The Klipsch community is interesting, because in addition to those who just don't know audio there are an amazing number of "audiophiles" that make a vocation keeping their nose in the air about Klipsch.... even if they've never heard it. I just try to deal with it by knowing, it can be hard, sometimes, to cope with having such fine taste in audio. By the way, Congrats on your senior year! Best regards, Dee p.s. cool looking avatar you've got there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted January 7, 2005 Share Posted January 7, 2005 2 or 3% like audio and buy the cones with big amps maybe 10% of that like horns with tubes... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edwinr Posted January 7, 2005 Share Posted January 7, 2005 Good post, Scp53. Your concerns are well founded. Most genuine audiophiles develop their interest in good sound at a very early age. From the moment I was able to comprehend what music was, I was interested in the method of reproduction. Other friends and family have never developed an appreciation of finely reproduced music. They've never been to, or wanted to hear, a symphony, a choir, or an organ recital. Many of those friends have moved on from that doof, doof in cars... now they have that doof, doof in their house in an attempt to reproduce what they believe is true home theatre sound. I give up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBrennan Posted January 7, 2005 Share Posted January 7, 2005 SCP---You're being snotty. At least those guys were building something, I'm not one to criticize a guy who is doing and probably learning. We all start somewhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted January 7, 2005 Share Posted January 7, 2005 ---------------- On 1/7/2005 6:39:41 PM TBrennan wrote: SCP---You're being snotty. At least those guys were building something, I'm not one to criticize a guy who is doing and probably learning. We all start somewhere. ---------------- hahaha, well that has much validity, we all must realize that we too started some where most of us here were not blessed to be raised by audiophiles who taught us right from the start. Also GOOD AUDIO COSTS GOOD MONEY, we can buy a ht for $75.00 now, now that is pretty cheap but not uncommon anymore, many of us here consider a $500 ht to be cheap. Well $500 is a lot of money regardless.... $500 in car repairs is a lot of money, a lot of movies/cd's, etc. Point of being most kids in highschool cannot afford to put dynaudio and nak in their car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
st. patrick Posted January 7, 2005 Share Posted January 7, 2005 Oh c'mon Tom, you big old softy you. I am sure you could find another way of encouraging the young lad to accept the fact that not everyone has the same dreams, desires and/or aspirations......nor the same taste in sound reproduction. Gosh, some of us like blondes, redheads, etc. but eventually we come to realize that our beauty queen may not even be appealling to others. Is music/sound reproduction that much different than all the other facets of life that this young man with encounter? p.s. some are thinkers, some are doers......we need both. Edit: Tom, methinks thou edited your original post......nice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WMcD Posted January 7, 2005 Share Posted January 7, 2005 I'm with Tom B. This is all the normal course of things. Let me say even teen aged angst over the problem to begin with. Yes, it is heartening that the lads even begin on a DIY project. It is the first step to inevitable learning, more building, and refinement. Gil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3dzapper Posted January 7, 2005 Share Posted January 7, 2005 All things start modestly. When I started out I had a pair of 5 1/4" two ways in my '67 Mustang and thought I was the cat's meow! All I wanted was a home system that sounded as good as that 8 track. Rick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik Mandaville Posted January 8, 2005 Share Posted January 8, 2005 Hi, SCP: I understand what you're saying. I'm a high school art teacher, and I talk audio (almost always car audio) with lots of guys in my classes on a daily basis. It's really a passion for some of them! Your observation that power and bass response are always hot topics is really true, and I know of fellas that have what amounts to really insane wattage, hooked up to quads of 10s, 12s, and 15s -- all neatly tucked into home-built boxes and panels. And sure, all the effort may not necessarily have to do with the appreciation of music through transparent and vivid systems, but.......maybe something is being learned in the process (?) I've had students in my class working out equations for box size and type (sealed or bass reflex, etc.) based on the published specs of their newly purchased drivers -- when they were supposed to be working on an assignment. And I've had these same guys tell me how much they hate math, but made themselves learn what's necessary in order to make the right enclosure for the subs. Almost all of them also do their own electronics work, taught themselves how to solder, and did the installs themselves, complete with power distribution boxes in really complex arrangements. I consider myself to be fairly seriously involved with audio and music listening and appreciation, but think that some of these guys may be on a very similar track! "Hey, Mr. Mandaville!" they've asked, "Have you ever heard of Peter Gabriel? "How about King Crimson or Adrian Belew?" "You should hear Tony Levin's bass guitar in my car system!" They all want me to bring a tube amp to school to see and hear, which I've been meaning to do for a long time. The interest is certainly there, and I think really that an initial interest in bass oriented, 'bump-in-your-trunk' car audio might in the not too distant future take the form of an equally important passion for really good home audio. I genuinely enjoy talking about this with them, since I know of no other teachers at school who are really seriously interested in audio and audio electronics. Which is to say that it's pretty great that you already care about the importance of quality over quantity. Some of these guys have systems that cost more than their cars, and I have in fact tried to encourage them to experiment with a couple of good quality coaxial 6.5" drivers and a clean but not overly powerful amp. Two 6 X 9s in the back can do surprisingly well at filling in the low-end response, too. So far, nobody has taken me up on that! Erik edit-- and then there are those who can afford to have everything done -- including all of the handiwork and building. Honestly, though, I've got some incredibly talented and clever students. One guy in my art class got rear-ended in his VW a couple of weeks ago -- and bent his rear axle all out of whack. He found the same model car in a salvage yard, used the cutting torch equipment, took the parts home, and rebuilt the entire rear end on his own VW in his garage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scp53 Posted January 8, 2005 Author Share Posted January 8, 2005 the thing that gets me going is when people with cheap/crappy stuff and think its the best. and that if the music doent have bass it sucks,etc. it seems most people have gone into spl and not quality. i here systems that are no doubt distorting, yet they think its good quality. maybe i just dont understand them. scp53 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richinlr Posted January 8, 2005 Share Posted January 8, 2005 I have been experiencing what SCP feels for years. Even though the vast majority of folks don't know what good sound is or care about it, almost everyone who visits my house and hears my system responds with somthing like "Man, that sounds good!" I believe that most folks can readily identify good sound but have never heard it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBrennan Posted January 8, 2005 Share Posted January 8, 2005 Must be the "high end" patchcords. Ooops, I'm sorry, interconnects. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted January 8, 2005 Share Posted January 8, 2005 those people that say sony htib's sound great have no basis of comparision thats why they thing mtx and lightening audio sound great, because everything in the store is going to sound horrible and and it will sound better once properly in place and to spec etc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colterphoto1 Posted January 8, 2005 Share Posted January 8, 2005 I've go both ways on this one. Sad that today's teens value volume over musicality, but then what was I like at 17..... Lets see. First DIY project was a guitar cabinet I bought from some guy, took out the two 12" woofers, got a book with the speaker charts, etc, and proceeded to build a box like 5 feet tall by 2' by 2'. what's that like 20 cubic feet- out of, get this 3/8 plywood cause it was all I could afford. Oh, yes, it had the 'horn' in front like voice of theatre. painted it black and it made some ferocious noise til the drivers blew. Second cabinet was shape of 4x12 marshal stack except I only has two wimpy duo-cone 12" speakers from a local cheesy hi-fi store. THis was build of SOLID particle board, with all the screw holes striping out and was covered in that fake fur that was soooo popular in the 70's. So experiment away kids. You'll either hit on the NEXT BIG THING or learn from your mistakes. Myself, I learned about big boxes, audio engineering (later became sound and light engineer for several local bands) and knew enought to know what to buy when the big money came my way. That's why I'm here today. So rock on youngsters, you're the next audiophiles whether you know it or not! Love Erik M's post- great point of view from someone close to the young people. You, my friend are in an enviable position as an adult the kids have respect for! Michael Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Spinner Posted January 8, 2005 Share Posted January 8, 2005 don't sweat it Dude ! ... when i was your age .. i was the only one with a real stereo, kenwood seperates, crown power amp (d-60) and JBL 36's ..big 10" woofer that, and a marshall guitar amp everyone else thought thier 8 track was awesome and thier Kustom guitar amp smoked ... and, no my parents didn't pay for dick .. i worked at a gas station after school Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Spinner Posted January 8, 2005 Share Posted January 8, 2005 i still remember un-boxin' them JBL's put on Jeff Beck .."Led Boots" absolutely blew my A$$ away ..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBrennan Posted January 8, 2005 Share Posted January 8, 2005 Jeez BSA, maybe if CCR had played Marshalls instead of those Kustoms they would'a made something of themselves. What kind'a BSA ya got? Lightning? Victor? Whoa, Valencias and 19s, hubba-hubba. Which do you like better? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WMcD Posted January 8, 2005 Share Posted January 8, 2005 Erik, I LOVED your post. It retold part of my history and a very great man who was my high school physics teacher. The jocks have coaches and us dweebs have them too. The true mentors are fewer. You are one. In the case of Brother Jim (and me) he shared his knowledge, parts collections, Heathkits, and speakers. He got me a bit into horns, he, himself having built some EV units. Plus a brainy forthright guy to talk to. A big part is that he listened, and cared. It sounds like you do too with your students. So I believe you are doing the same sort of thing. It is GRAND. - - - One of the more spooky things that ever happened to me was during The Who concert at the Cotton Bowl. The good lads played Teen Age Wasteland. There were 10,000 voices chimbing in. These were graduate teen age-ers of course. It showed a common thread of experience and a common rant of protest. The protest against estrangement. - - - - So, please keep on doing what you're doing. Your protoge's (sp) many not be telling you outright how much of a difference you're making. But you are. Gil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik Mandaville Posted January 8, 2005 Share Posted January 8, 2005 Thank you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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