T2K Posted January 12, 2005 Share Posted January 12, 2005 ---------------- On 1/11/2005 8:37:27 PM Griffinator wrote: ---------------- On 1/11/2005 8:11:20 PM T2K wrote: Sit just in front of your left Cornwall as music plays. Which speaker do you hear, left or right? You are hearing a mono/direct sound. Now move towards the sweet spot, does that change? You should hear more of a 'diffuse' sound, non-localizeable, a stereo effect in essence. ---------------- Here's my question for you. Do you know of any surround mixing studios that work with WDST's in the rear? I'm very close friends with engineers from several surround studios including Phil O'Keefe from Sound Sanctuary, George Massenburg, Ken Lee from Eleven Shadows, and every one of them use 5 or 6 full-range monitors to mix, some using a sub, some not. Why do I want to hear it any other way than the way they heard it? If WDST is nothing more than an "improvement" on the "diffuse" effect from monopole speakers, why aren't more studios using them to mix? ---------------- Wow! I'm really impressed that you know people. Why not direct your question to the impressive people that you know and report back. Keith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted January 12, 2005 Share Posted January 12, 2005 i love a good argument, and debate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griffinator Posted January 12, 2005 Share Posted January 12, 2005 ---------------- On 1/12/2005 12:02:24 AM T2K wrote: Wow! I'm really impressed that you know people. Why not direct your question to the impressive people that you know and report back. ---------------- See, that's just childish. I already know the answer I'd get from them. I'm asking you if you know of any professionals that use WDST speakers to monitor their surround mixes. I guarantee I already know the answer to that question were I to ask George, Phil, or any of the other engineers I've met. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griffinator Posted January 12, 2005 Share Posted January 12, 2005 ---------------- On 1/12/2005 12:06:50 AM Gramas701 wrote: i love a good argument, and debate ---------------- I love good debate, and even a good argument. Too bad we couldn't stay on that level... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ygmn Posted January 12, 2005 Share Posted January 12, 2005 For MOVIES...and not Music.... Is it not the purpose of Home Theater to mimic the experience of going to a movie theater and watching a movie but with out the hassle and hundred other people? Is it not true that in movie theaters they have several side speakers and sometimes several rear speakers yet only one set for LCR & Sub? Based on the above....how do you make your HT sound like a movie theater with 1 single side speaker for as many seats in your HT as possible? Forget the sweet spot...as it is only big enough for one person....which is impractical for HT and kinda selfish IMO... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T2K Posted January 13, 2005 Share Posted January 13, 2005 As anyone whom has been around this place for a length of time knows when, during the course of a discussion, someone uses asssociation by way of >word/name-brand association,I read this once< phrases to support their view and to diminish the views of others, it pisses me off. My response is usually based on the same level of maturity as that of that poster. I thought both JDM and Tom gave good responses to the question posed. Their findings are along the same experiences I have had in my home using the types of speakers in question. Whatever an engineer uses in a studio to mix movies does not interest me. Playback in my home does interest me. I own both KSP-300 monopole and KSP-S6 WDST surround speakers. Whatever sound is placed in the surround speaker in my setup is localizeable when using monopoles. No matter that a diffuse type sound is routed to the monopole, the resultant sound is simply a diffuse sound coming from one location. IOW, it rains in one spot loudly, or it rains in one spot diffusely (softer sound) using the monopole. I personally think that people are impressed by the sheer increase in output when using monopoles in the surround position as the output from a WDST speaker is more diffuse and less in-your-face. Right now I'm using monopoles in the surround position. I've used them for years. I haven't used my S-6's for quite a while now. I miss them. Keith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lipinski Posted January 13, 2005 Share Posted January 13, 2005 yeah, well I do want to hear what griff and his pals have to say. why, do some want to shut others up? it's a forum for goodness sakes. one exchanges thoughts and ideas, not stifle them. if you don't want to read it, just press page down again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griffinator Posted January 13, 2005 Share Posted January 13, 2005 ---------------- On 1/13/2005 6:20:29 PM T2K wrote: As anyone whom has been around this place for a length of time knows when, during the course of a discussion, someone uses asssociation by way of >word/name-brand association,I read this once< phrases to support their view and to diminish the views of others, it pisses me off. My response is usually based on the same level of maturity as that of that poster. ---------------- Whatever, man. I was making a point about your insistence that somehow WDST's are merely an expansion of an existing "diffusion" of sound via stereo. I've done plenty of recording and mixing of my own - stereo, not surround, granted, but it rather irritated me that somehow you believe that a mixing engineer isn't qualified enough to bring the correct signal to your ears at the correct time (via direct-throw speaker systems) Your premise is, whether you choose to admit it or not, just as pious as Bo$e's presumption (with their idiotic direct/reflecting stereo speakers) that they know how the stereo mix that I work my arse off to perfect should sound more than I, the person who actually mixed the record, know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enigma Posted January 13, 2005 Share Posted January 13, 2005 Call me a freakin moron but I see no difference in sound between a WDST and a great quality direct radiating speaker. And i have good ears!!! -antonio Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ygmn Posted January 14, 2005 Share Posted January 14, 2005 I asked...and never read answer... How is a single side surround direct speaker more like a movie theater then WDST single side surround? I would love to go to a movie theater....good one mind you....and be the only one...and then watch say...Fifth Element or something with good sound effects...and then run home and turn it on my HT...to compare before I forget....ya know... Until someone has multiple side surrounds and multiple rear surrounds one cannot be a movie theater..... With multiple side surrounds...any side effect will sound diffused since it is coming from a very broad area.....not just a single speaker....some where on side wall....but from maybe 4-7 speakers depending on theater.... If you want to mimic this sound..then you either get a bunch of side surrounds...or WDST to mimic the MOvie Theater Experience...IMO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griffinator Posted January 14, 2005 Share Posted January 14, 2005 ---------------- On 1/14/2005 10:43:59 AM ygmn wrote: I asked...and never read answer... How is a single side surround direct speaker more like a movie theater then WDST single side surround? I would love to go to a movie theater....good one mind you....and be the only one...and then watch say...Fifth Element or something with good sound effects...and then run home and turn it on my HT...to compare before I forget....ya know... Until someone has multiple side surrounds and multiple rear surrounds one cannot be a movie theater..... With multiple side surrounds...any side effect will sound diffused since it is coming from a very broad area.....not just a single speaker....some where on side wall....but from maybe 4-7 speakers depending on theater.... If you want to mimic this sound..then you either get a bunch of side surrounds...or WDST to mimic the MOvie Theater Experience...IMO ---------------- If you have a theater room that's as big as a movie house, then you need multiple side surrounds and multiple rear surrounds. That's the flaw in your logic. I don't have a 100-foot-long theater room, therefore I have no need for so many surround speakers. 7.1 is plenty, and I will achieve the same effect with my 7.1 in my 15x20 room as the theater does in their 60x100 room. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olorin Posted January 14, 2005 Share Posted January 14, 2005 Who said mimicking the theater was the goal? I thought bettering the movie theater was the goal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griffinator Posted January 14, 2005 Share Posted January 14, 2005 ---------------- On 1/14/2005 11:30:42 AM Olorin wrote: Who said mimicking the theater was the goal? I thought bettering the movie theater was the goal. ---------------- What I'm saying... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ygmn Posted January 14, 2005 Share Posted January 14, 2005 For Movies: How do you get better then a good theater? Is that not what movies are made for first...then they tinker with them for the HT buyer to get more money? You do not have to have a 100 ft long room to mimic the sound of a theater ... What it takes is proper surround speakers... Moon has 2 side surrounds that were WDST and now RC7 I think.. his room is not 100 feet long...and I bet his sound very close to theater....since wherever you sit...you will hear both side surrounds speaker...albet at different times due to distance....but this is how theaters are....so when they design the sound effects...they know it is coming from a wall of sound... Do they make it so you only hear one of these side surrounds?.. I am not trying to convince one is better then the other...but to make ya think why one is better then the other for HT...MOVIES not Music Original bipoles were used for DD so as to mimic the sound coming from a large side area....so as not to be a point of sound....but it seems most think point of sound is better since they can easily recogonize it is raining 2 feet behind their head and 7 feet up....instead of all over the left side.... Next time you go to a theater..pay attention to sounds coming from sides....see if it sounds like a point of sound....or a wall of sound... For me HT is about recreating the Theater Experience...hence the word Theater.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted January 14, 2005 Share Posted January 14, 2005 good post! and very good points Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olorin Posted January 14, 2005 Share Posted January 14, 2005 ygmn, You and I have different goals, then. My local theaters don't sound that good, and I'm not that interested in replicating that. I'm more interested in getting the best sound I can in my room. It's my room, after all, and it ought to sound the way I like it to. For me this about making a theater in the home, which is not necessarily the same as recreating the theater experience, so I'll thank you to leave the semantic pedantry out of it. Otherwise I'll have to point out that a theater can house any number of types of performance, and their association with movies is relatively new. Shakespeare's plays were performed in his lifetime at theaters, for example. We can take the origin of the word back to Greece and well before Christ if you want to get really silly about it. I'm also not taking sides on this direct-vs-wide thing. It's a matter of opinion. I use direct and like it. That does not, however, mean it is axiomatic that direct is better than wide. Another person's notion that wide is better does not make that axiomatic either. Maybe you like chicken and I like fish. I think this whole wide vs. direct debate matters about that much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ygmn Posted January 14, 2005 Share Posted January 14, 2005 ---------------- On 1/14/2005 2:29:34 PM Olorin wrote: I'm more interested in getting the best sound I can in my room. It's my room, after all, and it ought to sound the way I like it to. Yes....we each like different things....my point exactly.... To say one is better then the other is what is incorrect IMO.... PEACE! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBrennan Posted January 15, 2005 Share Posted January 15, 2005 "Next time you go to a theater..pay attention to sounds coming from sides....see if it sounds like a point of sound....or a wall of sound..." Nah, next time I go to the pictures I'll just continue to pay attention to the image on the screen and the dialouge. I just hope the next picture I see is better than "Beyond the Sea". Talk about Spacey on an ego trip. If you guys wanna reproduce or better (verb) theatre sound then you need theatre type speakers, period. If you haven't used big Heritages or better yet Altec VOTs you're not worth talking to about good sound. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tkot Posted January 15, 2005 Share Posted January 15, 2005 ---------------- On 1/15/2005 12:27:50 AM TBrennan wrote: If you haven't used big Heritages or better yet Altec VOTs you're not worth talking to about good sound. ---------------- ca'mon... tb some of us are forced to use small systems and thats "ok" jay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted January 15, 2005 Share Posted January 15, 2005 ---------------- If you guys wanna reproduce or better (verb) theatre sound then you need theatre type speakers, period. If you haven't used big Heritages or better yet Altec VOTs you're not worth talking to about good sound. ---------------- you must not be married yet, because i think a lot of us here are forced into a position that does not allow us to capacitate large speakers.... (wife and children) and you know what? i love klipsch to death, but just because you think that heritage is the best thing on earth doesn't mean that everyone else does either.. or even Altec VOT's, i bet there are people that exsist that dislike Heritage and Altec we just don't see them all that much because we all like our klipsch and surround ourselves by people that do. Furthermore, there are a lot of people here that simply can not afford Heritage..... please cut us all a break and spare us the ego trip, because you basically insulted everyone tht doesn't have heritage or altec Vot's Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.