binkt Posted January 23, 2005 Share Posted January 23, 2005 If anyone has had time to audition a set of modified K-horns with ALK's ESN network, your comments would be appreciated. As I stated these are "fist listen" impressions with about an hour dedicated to the reproduction after listening during the pre/post modification. We installed the networks one at a time into the Klipschorns. Listening tests being subjective as they are, I will try to convey the comments after the first was changed. There was obvious lobe-ing of mid horn dispersion present with the unmodified horn which were unnoticeable in the modified horn. The overall sense of the modified speaker was one of coherence and relative seamlessness in dispersion. The relatively unmodified horn had a forward-ness to the sound not shared by the esn installed horn. Some comments were made that the ESNs may be recessed and have more of a spacious sound. Detail is still high in keeping with the original concept. When both speakers were modified, the balance from bottom end to mid-highs was changed considerably and the sound stage was more coherent with a wide presentation but defined placement of instruments and much preferred front to back image. Anyplace in the room was a good spot to listen. The lower range balance still needs to be worked upon as some preferred the previous, unmodified bass as perhaps leaner but more defined and less fat. I interpret this as meaning more experimentation with autotransformer level and tweeter level may be needed. This condition is not unexpected and the opportunity to effect changes is welcomed. We really didnt have much time yet so please view these comments as extremely preliminary. Most preferred classical or jazz to rock and pop on these jewels. I will send you more info when I get some more time to listen. I am curious as to what you anticipated from this first exposure, so drop a line if you have the time and inclination. The installation took about two hours as the lag bolts that extended up from the bass bin had to be cut off requiring a trip to the hardware store to buy more Dremel cut-off wheels. Otherwise, very elementary process with your illustrated instructions contributing to the success. All For Now Thanks much Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daddy Dee Posted January 23, 2005 Share Posted January 23, 2005 binkt, Thanks for your take on the extreme slope networks. I have had a chance to hear them, only briefly, but was certainly impressed. Will look forward to hearing more as you do your fine tuning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted January 24, 2005 Share Posted January 24, 2005 The relatively unmodified horn had a forwardness to the sound not shared by the ESN installed horn. What do you mean by "relatively unmodified"? What year are these speakers? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfogg Posted January 24, 2005 Share Posted January 24, 2005 "The overall sense of the modified speaker was one of coherence and relative seamlessness in dispersion." That is how I describe the ES networs too. "The relatively unmodified horn had a forward-ness to the sound not shared by the esn installed horn." What crossover did you have? This may just be the difference in squawker tap settings between the two. Shawn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
binkt Posted January 24, 2005 Author Share Posted January 24, 2005 ---------------- On 1/24/2005 4:08:25 AM DeanG wrote: The relatively unmodified horn had a forwardness to the sound not shared by the ESN installed horn. What do you mean by "relatively unmodified"? What year are these speakers? ---------------- Relatively unmodified entailed a one microfarad bridge capacitor installed between the plus tweeter terminal to the plus input terminal and disconnection of the tweeter overpower protection diodes the ferrous screw through the inductors holding them to the board were changed to brass. Other wise these are KCFR numbers 5M698 and 5M699 believed to be 1974 and are untouched with AA networks until the installation of the extreme slope networks last week. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Klappenberger Posted January 24, 2005 Share Posted January 24, 2005 Ron, I think you are going to have to elaborate on what you mean by "forwardness". I'm not sure if what you descibe by that is good or bad! I think of "forwardness" as "in-your-face". I wouldn't think that would be too good! My guess is that it could be caused by the squawker set too loud. I suggest setting the taps down to 0-3. I think I set it to X-4 like I set the "universal type A" networks. That may not be right for the ES-400 network. Al K. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
binkt Posted January 24, 2005 Author Share Posted January 24, 2005 ---------------- On 1/24/2005 12:10:57 PM Al Klappenberger wrote: Ron, I think you are going to have to elaborate on what you mean by "forwardness". I'm not sure if what you descibe by that is good or bad! I think of "forwardness" as "in-your-face". I wouldn't think that would be too good! My guess is that it could be caused by the squawker set too loud. I suggest setting the taps down to 0-3. I think I set it to X-4 like I set the "universal type A" networks. That may not be right for the ES-400 network. Al K. ---------------- Al, et al You can tell when an Engineer is trying to talk to you. Why? Because he is staring at your shoes. As occasionally occurs, I have failed to communicate in the most fundamental area. The kHorns prior to modification with the ESNs were forward by comparison. This characteristic was not observed after the change. I didn't feel bad about the original sound as I knew nothing else. My value judgement here is the new crossovers are presenting an excellent sound better than the standard AA crossover.I am just beginning to attempt to logically,objectively in a planned fashion tune the speakers from this new start. I have made no changes yet. The crossovers are set to X-4 as delivered right now . I apologize for misleading you all with the forwardness statement. I appreciate your input and will probably need more. binkt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tigerwoodKhorns Posted January 24, 2005 Share Posted January 24, 2005 ---------------- On 1/23/2005 4:12:44 PM binkt wrote: ... Anyplace in the room was a good spot to listen... ---------------- Binkt Can you describe "how big" the sweet spot is? Is the imaging still excelant everywhere or is it limited to a small area? Thanks, Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
binkt Posted January 24, 2005 Author Share Posted January 24, 2005 The sweet spot is highly room dependent and somewhat subjective but the change was not subtle. The extreme slope networks greatly expanded the listenable area of the speakers and the sweet spot was on the order of three times the size of the AA networks. Observations such as these are behind the comment that the lobes existant in the slightly modified AA networked speakers were greatly reduced. We intend to change the environment of these speakers in a week or so. Another listening session and changing of some gear will probably reinforce these first impressions. -B Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Klappenberger Posted January 24, 2005 Share Posted January 24, 2005 Guys, Describing how a speaker sounds is not an easy thing to do. For example, we all know what an apple or a tomato tastes like, but just try and describe it! Al K. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
binkt Posted January 24, 2005 Author Share Posted January 24, 2005 ---------------- On 1/24/2005 4:12:55 PM Al Klappenberger wrote: Guys, Describing how a speaker sounds is not an easy thing to do. For example, we all know what an apple or a tomato tastes like, but just try and describe it! Al K. ---------------- Hear Hear! Million dollar decisions made on a twenty-five cent data base. But i gave it a shot. Bottom line... sounds like music -B Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted January 24, 2005 Share Posted January 24, 2005 I think you did great. I enjoyed the write up. Thanks! Don't mind Al, he never understands what I'm trying to say either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Klappenberger Posted January 24, 2005 Share Posted January 24, 2005 Dean, Daaahh! Al K Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted January 24, 2005 Share Posted January 24, 2005 I'm not sure, but I think this forum is down to 5 people who actually still have a sense of humor. Thanks for being such a good sport Al! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverSport Posted January 25, 2005 Share Posted January 25, 2005 "...and just WHAT did you mean by that???" Bill I enjoyed reading of your experience as well... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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