Erik Mandaville Posted January 26, 2005 Share Posted January 26, 2005 Hey, Mike: Maybe in the long run it would be easier and less stressful to just clean the tubes you have, and then use another source the next time 'round. I know this is a matter of principle, and I agree with you. I'm just thinking of saving the time of arguing the point, boxing them up and sending them back. The rat tee tee mentioned above can certainly cause oxidation, especially on copper or tinned copper where the plating is less than complete. Ammonia in urine can be terribly caustic to metal, which is why some household cleaners may not be the best solution for cleaning tube pins. I have even used diluted ammonia based solutions on sculptures I have cast in bronze -- it can develop a very nice patina. I want to be subtle and delicate here, but problems of ammonia-induced oxidation can be found lots of places, such as plumbing fixtures of certain types. It can be very harmful to electronics. You can use a Q-tip dampened with an electronics cleaner, such as Deoxit, and carefully apply that to the pins to dissolve oxidation. Very gentle use of a those green scotchbrite pads (GENTLY) can be used to physically remove some of that stuff, as can very fine emery paper (such as 600-1200grit) can be be used to polish the pins and clean them further. Non-ammonia based Windex or isopropyl alcohol can be used on the glass. ...Just a thought, you may rather get your money back on this one, and I'm just trying to save you some hassle. Take it easy! Erik Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironwoods Posted January 26, 2005 Share Posted January 26, 2005 Mold, mildew, rust and mouse piss... it's enough to drive a man to Solid-State! Will these boxes be on display, in some kind of vintage packaging art exhibit? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LonestarBlues Posted January 26, 2005 Author Share Posted January 26, 2005 I will clean the tubes myself. I am not going to get into a pissing match with Uncle Ned over the moldy filthy tubes. I would most likely wind up pissing him off & he pissing me off. Life is too short. Uncle Ned has most likely lost any future business from me. I will have to think long & hard before purchasing tubes from him again. My perception of the way Ned treats customers now is according to the amount of money spent at his business. I did not spend enough money to warrant good customer service. Apparently sending out moldy filthy tubes is trivial to Ned, no big deal. It is not trivial to me. We have a difference of opinion. I might be wrong in my perception of Uncle Ned but that is how I feel now. It is a shame as I genuinely liked Uncle Ned before this. I enjoyed b.s.ing with Uncle Ned in our previous phone conversations. I asked Ned how he got the nickname Uncle Ned? Ned replied that on his wife's side of the family, he has a boatload-lots of nephews & nieces. Hence the nickname-Uncle Ned. Regards, Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rtaylor Posted January 26, 2005 Share Posted January 26, 2005 Oh what the heck, really are you all serious? You bought NOS tubes at a price that can't be beat, guaranteed and you are pissed off. Try to reason it out. Have you ever cleaned and checked out a tube on a tester? No is the answer I'll bet. It would take more time than 5 dollars would buy. For craps sake it would be a money loser. What do you get paid for an hours work? Not just your hourly but with all of the benefits and all. If you are a construction worker probably about 45 dollars. White collare even more. I'm thinking 1/2 hour minimum to check and clean your tube. 25 dollars added to your 5 dollar tube. Get real. Sorry, can't bare to hear grown men cry. Whew, just kidding fellows.LOL Yeah, I wouldn't buy anything from Ned. Heck I bet he just bought a gallon of gas on all the money he ripped off you on that tube deal. SUCKA! By the way, Caig Deoxit would be good on the pins after cleaning. Anything you use to get the oxidation off will take off the markings on the tubes so be carefull. The green or white scuff pads will work without chemicals to get the scrungees off before the caig. Just kidding up above but maybe you should think about what you're saying before dogging someone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik Mandaville Posted January 26, 2005 Share Posted January 26, 2005 Use of Deoxit was certainly not intended for use on the glass envelope. Using Deoxit on pins prior to Scotchbrite abrasive pads is important because it loosens and breaks down existing oxidation first. I often clean glass envelopes with nothing more than soft paper towel (Bounty)dampened with warm water -- and that's all. Regardless of how dirty some tubes can look, I have seen absolutely filthy tubes work like new. Unkowingly purchasing tubes badly in need of a bath just wouldn't be my idea of the ideal transaction. Mike: If you would like me to test those tubes for you, you know I would be glad to help out. Just send them to me, and I can test and record everything. I can have a look at and clean the pins, too. Try not to worry about it if you can -- it can be turned into a positive experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike stehr Posted January 27, 2005 Share Posted January 27, 2005 I went to one of those season long yard sales once, they had a bunch of junk sitting for trash pick-up. I spied some tubes. One was a National Union 71A. Green pins, paint on the glass. The base looked fine, no cracks however. The 71A marking is barly visible. I grabbed it for some reason. When we cleaned the pins with scotch-bright(I think)and gave the tube a test for emissions, it came out to over 100%. No shorts, a good strong tube saved from death. I have about 5 or six of these 71A's....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik Mandaville Posted January 27, 2005 Share Posted January 27, 2005 "When we cleaned the pins with scotch-bright(I think)and gave the tube a test for emissions, it came out to over 100%. No shorts, a good strong tube saved from death." I agree absolutely! An electronic circuit has no idea about what is looks like or the type of enclosure it's in -- or whether the protective glass tent protecting its delicate grids, plates, heaters and cathodes has mold or dirt on it -- and it might get along just fine -- possibly even better than a tube/s that look brand and have bright, silvery pins. There is some old addage that refers to judging a book based on the appearance of the cover... Again, this has to do with a business transaction and customer satisfaction. I understand that. But, there's another old cliche' that tries to provide comfort in the fact that there are lots of other fish swimming around in the same sea. There are several places I have bought tubes from recently, and in all cases received really good customer support -- and in one case even a cool new T-shirt -- for free! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
analogman Posted January 27, 2005 Share Posted January 27, 2005 ---------------- On 1/25/2005 12:36:22 AM LonestarBlues wrote: This is my second tube purchase from Uncle Ned at Triode Electronics. I was happy with my first purchase. I am not a happy camper with my second purchase. I bought 4 GE NOS 6AV5 tubes for my Dehavilland Aries 845 monoblock amps. I needed some spare backup tubes. The 6AV5 tubes are not expensive-$5.95 a tube. Fedex delivered the tubes. I opened the box and 3 of the tube boxes had mold splotches on one end inside and outside of the tube boxes. Opened up all the boxes & pulled the tubes. Two tubes have mold/dirt on them- on both the plastic base & glass tube. The filthiest tube has some rusted/ corroded tube pins. The third tube is slightly dirty. The fourth tube is clean. I sent a nice email to Ned stating I was not happy with the moldy/ dirty tubes. Asked if the tubes were checked out before they were shipped to me. And if used tubes were possibly sent by mistake. Ned replied that this tube type has not been manufactured in 25 years, there's a limit as how picky we can be be about the cosmetics and still stock them & sell them for $5 a piece. The one's you got are probably 40 years old, so sure, they might look like they've sat in a dusty warehouse for 40 years. And no to sending me used tubes by mistake. I also asked if the tubes were tested prior to shipping. Ned replied Yes, we also guarantee them, if you have any problems with them we have others we can replace them any bad ones with. I sent a reply email to Ned's reply to me. Hello Ned. How much effort would it have been to clean the tubes prior to shipping & replacing moldy tube boxes? Two tubes look like there is mold on the tubes & one has some rusted/ corroded tube pins. Definitely mold inside & outside of the boxes. Selling tubes in this condition & expecting the customer to clean them up is b.s. and bad business practice in my humble opinion. Regards,M.D. I really have to question whether the tubes were actually checked out & tested. I would be ashamed to sell someone tubes in this condition. Waiting for a reply from Uncle Ned. Regards, Mike ---------------- I agree with the many remarks made regarding the decline in the quality of customer service in today's world, and I too, find it to be a sad and disappointing condition. I also feel compelled to point out that in this instance I don't think these concerns are applicable. In a hobby where views, opinions, and even the approach to design are so plentiful and often seemingly incompatible, that an individual would elect to attempt to serve the needs of so diverse a "niche" (with honest pricing) is commendable. For example many "old timers" find the prospect of anything more than "zip" cord for speaker hookup to be laughable. By the same measure, what the hell, it's a little dirt, WIPE it off. Another less narcissistic point to consider is that SOME collectors/audiophiles do in fact COVET original boxes REGARDLESS of condition, and would be equally disappointed if their NOS tubes had been reboxed in generic white ones. If the "Uncle Neds" of this world were to try and satisfy every individual's needs and idiosyncrasies on everything ranging from aesthetics to pricing, they would soon be out of business. Any doubt as to whether the tubes in question were really tested or not is negated by the fact that you were extended the guaranty that he would exchange them if any were problematic. The only real issue I see here is that you seem to be more fastidious than "Ned". How would you be feeling right now if "Ned" had sold you two NOS W.E.300Bs for $100.00 each, BUT they were covered with dirt and mold and required a little cleaning? You'd be praising him to "High Heaven". Wipe the dirt off or send them back, I'm sure "Ned" won't mind. You're just cheap. Stop whimpering. As always, Analogman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clipped and Shorn Posted January 27, 2005 Share Posted January 27, 2005 On the subject of Triode Electronics and their products: I just now finished installing various upgrades from them for my MkIII monoblocks. As diligently as I tried to follow the included instruction sheets, the finished units are still not working, and now I have to troubleshoot with those somewhat disorganized instructions he sent with the stuff which incidentally did not even include a schematic for the driver boards. Some resistors were missing from the bias control kit, but after I called, he sent some along in a few days. Generally I have found Ned to be available on the phone, and I will need to call him to see if he can help figure out what the problem is. Almost everything was replaced with new stuff, and I followed the instructions meticulously!! Not good enough. I will now seriously have to learn some actual electronics for real to get these things to work. Well that is good, but the process is a bit frustrating. His instructions are not the fool proof type of thing that originally accompanied these kits from Dynaco and other companies back when, which just about anyone could build and succeed on a first try. I suspect that some of the instructions, due to problems of language or lack of absolute thoroughness, have been unintentionally misleading and this has resulted in an error somewhere on my part. No amount of rechecking with those instructions can solve the problem. Frustrating. Whatever is not working is a mystery to me at this point. First I will chart all the voltages on all the pins so those in the know can help point me in the right direction. I have accepted the fact that one must really understand some basic tube (triode) circuit electronics to proceed, and I am working on this with the help of knowledgable sources. My advice to other beginners, be cautious about all those upgrade kits from Triode, they may not be so user friendly in the instruction department. Quality and results, remain to be seen (heard) and I will post on that happy day when things are working. C&S Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LonestarBlues Posted January 28, 2005 Author Share Posted January 28, 2005 The various opinions & responses to my receiving moldy tubes is amazing. It shows how we react differently & have different perspectives. I respect others difference of opnion. Please respect mine. Me cheap, far from it. I own 3 separate systems & have a 4th spare Mcintosh MC7150 amp not in use. I was expecting clean plug & play tubes from Uncle Ned which to me is not an unreasonable expectation. We all have different pet peeves that can punch our buttons. Receiving the moldy tubes punched my pet peeve button. I have ordered & received this past May an inexpensive pair of NOS 6AH4 tubes-$9.95 each from the Tubestore in Canada for my Verve preamp. The tubes arrived via Fedex Air clean ready to use-plug in & play. I also ordered a pair of NOS 12SX7 tubes-$29.95 each at the same time for my Llano Phoenix CAS 300/VA2 mosfet/tube hybrid amp. The separate VA2 voltage section uses 6SN7, 6SL7 & 12SN7 tubes. This pair was also clean. I bought my used 2 year old deHavilland Verve preamp from Audiogon back in May. The preamp was very well packed- double factory boxes. The tubes were not well packed & some of the tubes were broken in Fedex Air 3 day shipping. I needed a pair of 6AH4 tubes to get the preamp up & running. Ted the seller bought me a new set of tubes-2 NOS 6AH4 tubes, Sovtek 6SN7 & Sovtek 5U4G rectifier from ATSI in Florida. The inexpensive NOS 6AH4 tubes from ATSI arrived clean-plug & play. I was reluctant to try & use the 2 moldy tubes that look like they could have could have possibly come from Fred Sanford of Sanford & Son. I do not own a tube tester or have the knowledge & ability to work on tube gear. The Aries amps are also 1000 volts DC underneath. I bought my deHavilland Aries 845 SET monoblock amps from the same guy I bought the Verve preamp from. The amps retailed new 2 years ago at $6445. Ted, the original owner also spent additonal money to have the faceplates of the amps & preamp goldplated at a plating shop & had oversized knobs machined at a machine shop-knobs also are gold plated. I got an excellent deal from Ted on Audiogon & bought the amps for $2000. That was hard earned money I spent. I like both the sonics & visual aesthetics. I sure did not want to possibly damage the amps if I am uncertain about the moldy tubes. That is why I asked Ned if the tubes were tested prior to shipping & if possibly used tubes had been sent by mistake. Ned says the tubes are good. Ned & I have a difference of opinion on sending out moldy tubes. I don't think a customer should receive moldy filthy tubes & have to clean rusted/corroded tube pins. I received clean inexpensive NOS tubes from the Tubestore & ATSI & expected the same from Ned. Regards, Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dodger Posted January 28, 2005 Share Posted January 28, 2005 At 9:12:51: analogman wrote" You're just cheap Stop whimpering" ---------------------------------- Don't throw an accusation like that unless you know the Poster. There was no whimpering. I do not know how old you are, but one should expect higher quality than received. There is nothing wrong in expecting a decent looking tube for $5.00 each. As for boxes, I have 2 boxes full of extras. Collectors don't covet mold and dirt. I would have posted the same thing if I received tubes in those condition. Cleaning them and cleaning the pins is Customer service. I've bought NOS tubes for my RCA floor model radio: Cunningham, RCA. Arcturus, Bendix, Hytron, Brimar, etc - all under $5.00 each, all came in clean manufacturer boxes, all tubes clean. If you provide excellent Customer Service, It begins with answering the phone, making sure tubes are clean, boxes, are clean. A warranty is provided, I get warranties for as long as 90 days. I go back to where product is clean tested and the tube's box is clean. I'm not whimpering, and I certainly am not cheap. I have 4 tube caddies with tubes that range for $1.00 to $200.00 each. So back to my statement, don't call names unless you know the person. Also look up what the UCC states about condition and note that under Basic Business Law the Buyer has the right to expect clean tubes and boxes. Also note that those with allergies or hypersensitvity may be greatly affected by mold and mildew. Last note - tubes in boxes should be clean. Point to ponder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik Mandaville Posted January 28, 2005 Share Posted January 28, 2005 Hi, Mike: I'm just a neighbor, relatively close by trying to give you some help. We met before and had a good chat with Moondog related stuff, and thought I could help in some way with this. Anyway, I wanted to copy the following from your initial post: "I also asked if the tubes were tested prior to shipping. Ned replied Yes, we also guarantee them, if you have any problems with them we have others we can replace any bad ones with." I think that if the tube pins, which in terms of cleaning are a little more time consuming, are really bad, you might send the worst of the four back for replacements. Good luck, Erik Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
analogman Posted January 28, 2005 Share Posted January 28, 2005 "Collectors don't covet mold and dirt" If you read carefully, I did not say that they all did. I also AGREED with you and others regarding the decline in sevice in todays world. BUT When the seller says "I'll take them back" and a person still has to complain, that is WHIMPERING. I'm not saying that sending out dirty goods is a sound practice, but when there is a remedy made available by the seller, what's the issue? Someone pointed out that they did not feel that this was typical practice from "Ned", so why make such a big deal over it until a pattern is established? How much money a person has, or has spent, has nothing to do with being "cheap". There's a whole lot of "cheap" millionaires in "Dixie". I don't think "Ned's" dirty tubes are a barometer of the decline of Western civilization and sevice, I'd be willing to bet things like this happened back in the "old" days too. Your memories and my age have nothing to do with it. And yes, I'm old enough to remember when things were different, for what that's worth. Sorry about the dirty tubes hubbub, hope you recover soon, Analogman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dodger Posted January 28, 2005 Share Posted January 28, 2005 The remedy was stated in the Post, available if they are bad. He emailed Seller, has not heard back, thus no remedy to dirt and possible mold. I do agree with the fact that this thread has gone too long. I thought Erik offered a reasonable view. I stated that they should have NEVER left in that condition. As, unless I missed it, there has ben only the remedy of replacement if bad, Erik's advice stands. It has been all of us keeping this going, explaining good customer service, they are only $5.00 each, etc.. So the cheap and wimpering are still insulting unless you know the person. My definitions have been stated and defended. LAST POST ON THIS SUBJEct Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LonestarBlues Posted January 28, 2005 Author Share Posted January 28, 2005 Sorry, Uncle Ned did not offer to take the tubes back & did not respond to my 2nd email. Read his policy in FAQ section of Triode Electronics. Only defective tubes can be exchanged. Regards, Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dodger Posted January 28, 2005 Share Posted January 28, 2005 ---------------- On 1/28/2005 1:11:22 PM LonestarBlues wrote: Sorry, Uncle Ned did not offer to take the tubes back & did not respond to my 2nd email. Read his policy in FAQ section of Triode Electronics. Only defective tubes can be exchanged. Regards, Mike ---------------- Now he has posted. He posted facts regarding taking the tubes back and no reply to email. Again, no wimpering, no signs to me, of being cheap. Only the Customer Service we Knew. Erik's advice still stands. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike stehr Posted January 28, 2005 Share Posted January 28, 2005 "Sorry, Uncle Ned did not offer to take the tubes back & did not respond to my 2nd email. Read his policy in FAQ section of Triode Electronics. Only defective tubes can be exchanged." Mike, You have some nice gear there. Do you listen to the 845 on the '77 Cornwalls? IME, never trust a tube new or old unless you can test the tube right in front of your face. You may want to invest in a tube tester. I know it's a drag, scrouging one up that even works or is calibrated. Or paying the prices for some brands. But with a little homework and scrouging you can find something suitable. The only bummer part of this is finding a tester that will test triodes. But at least a tube tester from the sixties era would be helpful. Even with a tester you have to pay attention. I tested some tubes that were strong, and forgot to test for heater to cathode shorts. And then short in circuit. I had a 6BQ5 and a 5U4 do that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LonestarBlues Posted January 28, 2005 Author Share Posted January 28, 2005 Hello Mike. Thanks for the gear compliment. I picked up both the Welborne Labs gear & deHavilland gear from Audiogon at great prices. Also picked up my Llano CAS 300/VA2 mosfet/tube hybrid amp from Audiogon at a good discount. My favorite gear buying site. Where some guys are on a merry go round, changing out gear frequently. I have been fortunate to have found some good deals. I would not have been able to buy new at full retail prices for the gear. I have the deHavilland Aries 845 amps hooked up to my 1983 Cornwalls. I really like the dehavilland Aries amps-25 watts a channel. They sound very good to my ears. The Welborne Labs Moondogs are hooked up to the 1977 Cornwalls. Sometime in the near future I need to try out the deHavilland gear on the 1977 Cornwalls. I really like DeanG's Auricap Type B crossovers. I changed out from the stock Type B & installed DeanG's crossovers in the 1977 Cornwalls. They are a sonic improvement over the stock crossovers. Thank you Dean, you are a crossover craftsman and make an excellent crossover. Yes, I definitely need to invest in a tube tester sometime in the future. I do not really know what models of the various brands of tube testers-B&K, Hickok-(spelling probably is wrong) to look for.I know I would need a mutual trans- conductance type of tube tester. Regards, Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik Mandaville Posted January 28, 2005 Share Posted January 28, 2005 I think I'm clear on this, now.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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