Wanting to build LaScalas

[Marvel]

I'm trying to find accurate drawings and dimensions of the LaScala cabinets. A good friend of mine built many of them for P.A. and good hifi use, with the bass horn separate from the compression driver systems. He built them all as two-ways. My son and I want to build a set (we can't afford the real thing), and would like some advice. We would also like them to be two-way systems, brands of woofers and compression drivers/horns is going to be based partly on finances, partly on quality. My son wants to use JBL components, but we the first set will be mine and a learning situation, so we aren't super partial. I could use details: I don't know what specs the Klipsch woofers actually have, etc., so I am not sure what else would work.

I fould one set of drawings with dimensions in English measurements, and one in metric. They don't convert to the same values/dimensions. Right now my living room system has JBL 4311 studio monitors, almost 30 years old and I like them a lot. They are only rated to 45Hz in the low end and 15KHz in the high end. Still sound good to me. I have a music production setup with Alesis Monitor Ones and a Velodyne sub on it. They are okay too, but would like to get the "big sound" that only a big speaker can give. Money is an object, which is why we are building our own.

Thanks to all in advance

Bruce

bbrown@covenant.edu

This message has been edited by Marvel on 08-16-2001 at 07:54 PM

[Klipschguy]

Hello Bruce,

If your building the La Scalas to save money - don't do it. The drivers will cost you an arm and leg, especially the midrange horn lenses. Sit down and make a list of everything (including wood, glue and screws) and add it up - you'll be amazed. The cheapest, easiest route to go is to buy a pair on Ebay for $700 to $900. Buy a pair and take your son on a road trip to pick them up. I just finished building a pair of rear-loaded horns (based on a fairly simple design) and Man, it was a lot of work - and I'm pretty handy with wood. If I was bound and determined to build a pair of serious speakers, I would probably build the mighty Klipschorns (although I could problably get a used pair for the same price).

Also, in direct response to your question, I don't know where you can get La Scala plans. You might do a google search on "W cabinet folded horn".

Keep us posted,

KG

[TBrennan]

Bruce---Klipschguy has a good point, you probably won't save much money over used LaScalas. However I think you can make a better sounding speaker yourself. The Klipsch K-33 woofers run about $200 a pair. A pair of used JBL 2420 drivers from Jammin Jersey will run $300 and a pair of Altec 511B horns from them are $200. IMO&E the 511B, when well damped, is the best sounding mid-high horn and 2420s on them will cover from 500hz out past 16-17khz on axis. I think that from 500hz up this will sound better than LaScalas (I've owned LaScalas) mainly because of the wider dispersion pattern of the 511, I think the narrow dispersion of the LS gives it it's "fierceness" on axis, something completely lacking with the 511B. So you'd have $700 in drivers and horns plus the cost of wood and the crossover (which CANNOT be lower than 500hz). Now you can pickup the JBLs and Altecs cheaper on Ebay or by haunting local prosound stores (I paid $220 for my 2420s and $150 for my 511Bs) but Jammin Jersey has fair prices, good service and ready availability. There are plans for the LS basshorn online, I used to have them. A search should turn them up.

[John Warren]

With patience, basic cabinet making skills (clamps, glue, screws) and table saw with 60 tooth carbide blade, the LaScala is not difficult to fabricate

AND fun. The MSRP for the LaScala is going up making construction a suitable alternative for some.

Before T-S parameters the woofer needed to be 4 ohm, 15" driver with Fs 26-28Hz and maximum excursion no larger than 7mm. The LLC charges $100 for K33E.

If you stick with the quality level the LLC uses (recommended), a pr. of AL-3 networks can be made for almost nothing. The autoformer cost $18 and can be purchased from UTC. I built "super" quality versions and heard no difference. To my ears, fancy network components bring nothing to the table, maybe I'm deafening.

I have a set of plans for the LaScala. What's your

mailing address.

[John Warren]

here are plans, they are from ISOPHON

http://web.tiscali.it/audiofanatic/Piani_costruttivi/LaScala.html

[Marvel]

John,

Thanks for the drawings. My son had actually already found those, but they translate to 5/8 inch from the metric, and values and dimensions look slightly different from others drawings I have been able to find. Still, thanks a bunch. If I don't hear mine next to some 'official' ones, I'll probably never know the difference.

By building them ourselves, we can take our time and spread the money out over making a single purchase. And thanks for the Jammin Jersey site. They do have good prices. It WILL be FUN.

Thanks to all. I'll post progress as we go.

Bruce

[John Warren]

if you read the Italian introduction is states that the builder can make the panels either 16mm (5/8") or 19mm (3/4") thk. the dimensions must be compensated to consider the change.

This message has been edited by John Warren on 08-18-2001 at 09:40 PM

[WMcD]

Interesting. Rumor control at one time reported the LaScala prototype was 1/2 inch ply. Hence the side ducts are a bit undersized in width. They should be 3 inches wide by conventional thought.

Also, the drawings in the link use German. No?

From all my reading and experience, nothing is going to be harmed by a 1/4 inch here and there.

Gil

This message has been edited by William F. Gil McDermott on 08-19-2001 at 05:18 PM

[John Warren]

dwgs r German, the website is Italian

[jbek]

I seriously contemplated this and I had all the drivers in hand and didn't do it... Unless you have a woodshop in your garage and are an accomplished woodworker, I wouldn't do it. I've seen a number of copies and they just don't come out with the same fit and finish as the real McCoy... I do have some plans somewhere on my harddrive and step by step pix of a demolition of a pair of La Scalas (they were trashed/that's where I got my drivers from)... Email me if you still want them. I think the hardest part of building the La Scala is getting a PERFECT 20 degree angle cut on the dog houses... I spoke with a few guys on it and concluded you need to create a custom gig to get that angle (or something like that anyway) That's really what did it in for me.. I didn't have the tools or the experience and just sold off my drivers on ebay and used the proceeds to buy a used pair of Khorns (picked up a pair in Oakland for $675, He He He)... But seriously though, if you are patient and can wait and hunt around for awhile, there are deals to be had... On several occasions while living in the Bay Area I picked up La Scala's for $400 & $650 and turned around and sold them on ebay for hundreds more... I picked up the trashed pair site unseen for $350 and parted out the drivers for $650... On the other hand, IF YOUR IN A HURRY, the prices on ebay are fair... You may also check audiogon, audioreview, audioasylum, etc... Just my $2... Good luck!

[djk]

A pair of LaScala take only three sheets of 4 X 8 plywood.Birch runs about $36 in Iowa.The 60* angle on the doghouse is cut by tilting the blade on your tablesaw to 30* and feeding the wood vertically into the blade.Screw a board about a foot tall onto your rip fence.This is called an auxillary fence and most saws have their fence pre-drilled for this.My very first speaker project with my brand new Sears 10" tablesaw was 12 pair of LaScala boxes.The first two pairs took about 4 hours per box.The last ones took about an hour and a half each.A router with a template would have saved a bunch of time cutting holes.

[WMcD]

Couple of thoughts.

Homebrew is usually more expensive than finding a used unit. But to quote an old asprin advertisement, "Mother, I'd rather do it myself."

PWK actually authorized home building of the K-Horn for personal use in a magazine article. So, why not do the same with the LaScala, trademark issues excepted. I.e. we should not call our home built units Klipchorns, or LaScalas, or Belles.

That angle at the peak of the doghouse can be a bear if you have only a circular saw. I see nothing wrong with using a 1 1/2 inch wide front plate, somewhat like we see in a larger form on the Belle. It will avoid the radical angle.

Gil

This message has been edited by William F. Gil McDermott on 08-24-2001 at 08:03 PM

[Marvel]

Thanks to the post from djk, and the help from some friends who have great woodshops and tools, I'm not afraid to tackle this. I do have an offer to buy some used ones (87s, with some mods along the way) for a price lower than I could build them. I still want to make ones with separate bass horns. This is what djk did with the multitude he made a few years ago. Found out I had used a pair, borrowed by his brother. They sounded great, and were easy to move around (P.A. use) with the parts separate. Time will tell. JBEK, if you have the plans, feel free to email them to me. And Gil, your plans seem pretty close to the mark from what else I've seen.

[Marvel]

Curious about different drivers. What is the response of the horn/bass cabinet with the K-33 driver in it. The crossover is stated to be at 500Hz, but most of the compression drivers I've seen are stated to have the crossover point be 700/800 Hz. In building these, I'm not looking to make an exact clone of a La Scala, but a two way that has the bass cab as close to genuine, the mid/hi horn can be anything else that is not too pricey. I realize it is a tradeoff, no matter what you do. DJK told me he had used an EV compression driver, but looking at their web site, if it is still the same model, where did all that great high end come from (it is a siren driver)? How about the Eminence PSD 3003 driver? The price for a new one is still not too outrageous. Or would the JBLs be better? Or does this just get into personal preference? How about making a tractrix horn? That really doesn't look to be too hard if you have the measurements. Since I will also on occasion use these for PA work (couple times a year), I want something pretty portable, hence the separate bottom cabinet.

BTW, the specs for the K33 are listed below. Does anyone else make a woofer that would work in the cabinet without a major redesign? Be hard to beat the price for the K33 though.

SPEC 15162

PART # K-33

RE OHMS 3.39

LE MH .96

QM 7.39

QE .410

QT .390

XMAX MM 8.20

BL TM 11.88

EFF % 2.91

FS HZ 34.46

MMS GMS 78.59

CMS mm/N .2714

RMS NS/M 2.3037

VAS LTRS 301.66

SD SCM 889.59

EBP 84.4

SPL dB 96.6

Wattage 150rms

Again, thanks for the great response from you guys. Got some other things to buy and work on first (a video editing project), but this project WILL get started some day.

Bruce

This message has been edited by Marvel on 08-25-2001 at 12:03 PM

[John Warren]

PWK allowed DIY horns because the patents were active back then. They've long expired. You can build and sell them if you want. Just don't call them Klipschorns or LaScala, there is no expiration dates on trademarks and copyrights.

[djk]

I had 100 woofers custom made for me.They were similar to the K33E.For a stock LaScala you cannot find a better woofer than the K33E and at $100 from Klipsch you can't go wrong.On the ones you heard I used an EV1823S.Later I went to using the EV1824M and then Atlas.For hi-fi use I used one KSN1016 crossed at 3.9Khz at 18dB/oct with a matching transformer to adjust the level.For PA it will take three to handle the power in live vocals.Klipsch used five of the KSN1016 in the MCM1900 crossed at 7Khz to four K55V.

[WMcD]

For the record, copyrights do have a finite lifetime.

I'm not aware of any copyright protection on the K-Horn.

On the other hand, there are several utility patents (what we usually think of as a patent) and also a design patent. Of course, all now expired.

Gil

[John Warren]

Gil- I was thinking of the Klipschorn owners manuals, instructions, etc which are copyrighted. At the time PWK was running the show, copyright lasted life of author + 70 years so for all intents and purposes its forever. You are correct, however.

It is a Federal offense to infringe on a copyright.

Just waiting for the day when a E-V or JBL goes after ebay Bozo's that sells Xerox copies of thier copyrighted work. Purchaser is also liable, it is receipt of stolen property.

This message has been edited by John Warren on 08-26-2001 at 07:54 AM

[John Warren]

djk-Can you recommend a replacement for the

EV 18W-K? I own a KD Patrician IV. I have all the drivers but the woofer. All I know about the "-K" is that is was a 4 ohm, Fs 22Hz driver specifically designed for the horn loaded Patrician. The woofer mounting plate is removable and attached to the front baffle with T-nuts, a nice surprise. I can make a new plate to accomodate any woofer.

[Marvel]

djk -- Are you saying you used the KSN1016 as a tweeter along with the mid horn? I don't remember those being but a two way. Those are piezos aren't they?

Bruce