Q-Man Posted March 10, 2005 Share Posted March 10, 2005 What kind of percentage could you expect from a sale? You would need something for bringing some nut into your home and wasting your time. If you had a store, it would be one thing. Do you really want strangers to come to your home? Why do you have a need to show off your stuff? Can't you just be satisfied with it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Champagne taste beer budget Posted March 10, 2005 Share Posted March 10, 2005 ---------------- On 3/10/2005 3:50:48 PM ygmn wrote: Force the dealers to have some on hand..... ---------------- I like that idea. I disagree that EVERY auto dealer has a model of everything the manufacturer makes in stock, even though they do have huge overhead. Then again, with the Klipsch line, for an authorized dealer to have at least one set of Khorns on display might set him back $4,000 or so at cost. (Just a guess) However, he might find that once people hear them, they start selling. Then once that customer has some friends over to listen, someone else decides they like the sound too, might buy new, might buy used, but could at least have the option of going down to listen to some. I could be wrong, but I doubt that many of the sales of NEW KHorns go to folks making 15K a year. The folks that buy these new have money, or at least are making a comfortable living. Chances are, their friends are of similar income range. Meaning they have the means to buy new if they choose to. If sales for the Heritage line is down, Klipsch needs to remember this. They can't sell what their dealers don't have. If I wanted to buy a Viper, I'd want to test drive one first. The 3 or 4 Dodge dealers closest to me don't have one in stock, probably never will. I'd have to drive to Minneapolis (2 hrs)to drive one. How likely is it I'd drive there to test drive one, then come back home and order one from a local dealer? I think not. With as much as most audio dealers have tied up in inventory, I don't see where requiring them to add KHorns to their list would be that tough on em. Heck, why not ALL Heritage lines, just so that if someone loves the Klipsch sound but can't spring for the Horns, they can save a bundle and get LeScalas or Belles or Heresey's instead. Once infected, they'd end up with more Klipsch anyway, just have to get that initial sale. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpm Posted March 10, 2005 Share Posted March 10, 2005 It's all speculation, but Klipsch appears to be ready to pull the plug on PWK's line of thinking. Like the Model A, the Heritage line will no longer be produced. Why bother when they're making a killing on the newer, less costly lines? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-MAN Posted March 10, 2005 Share Posted March 10, 2005 I am with DON on this: why help Klipsch do what THEY should be doing in the first place? - That is, IF they wanted to, which it is abundantly clear that they do not, and that sorry to say, that is probably sound business practice. The facts are that the growing market is in HT, and COMMERCIAL SOUND REINFORCEMENT installations, and even crappy little computer speakers with a low cost and high margin, that you can pick up at Walmart, GoodGuys and the ilk, not the Heritage line with its attendant shipping issues. Kiss goodbuy to the past aspirations towards high-end audio. (Say hello to Bose, THAT'S the business model!) DM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Champagne taste beer budget Posted March 10, 2005 Share Posted March 10, 2005 For the same reason Chevy kept making the Corvette when they made more on the Cavalier. Or the same reason I keep doing diagnostic work when I can make a lot more money doing brakes or tune-ups. Pick a jeweler; do you think they survive on their VERY high end products, or do they survive on their low to average priced products, and consider someone buying a 5 karat ring a nice surprise. Paper manufactures make all their profits on basic paper sales, but still offer embossed, watermarked, acid free linen type paper for the customers that want it. Percentage of sales is low, profit may be high or low, but they still offer it. It's the same in any industry. I only hope that Klipsch hasen't decided to rest on their laurels, getting a strong hold on the market initially with the Heritage line initially, then going in a different direction due to increased demand for HT systems, casual listeners and MultiMedia systems. I feel that with the gaining popularity of the Klipsch name to the masses, due to exposure in the HT and MM arenas, they are well placed to start a push of their high end products. Heritage especially, once people hear it, they'll like it, and buy it. Of course, if all that is available to demo is Referance systems, who's ever going to know just how good a Heritage system can sound.? Klipsch, if you have a brain, GET ON THE MARTETING BANDWAGON FOR THE HERITAGE SYSTEMS!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fish Posted March 10, 2005 Share Posted March 10, 2005 Well Colin,it looks like there's gonna be a long line at your place. I have to hand it to ya,that is a good idea and you're alright but it probably would be a tough sell in todays world,I hope I'm wrong.I also kinda think Klipsch could do a little more,my local dealer has NO heritage but does have some crap wasting space,imo.Of course Kilpsch don't need me tellin'them their biz so again,imho. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Champagne taste beer budget Posted March 10, 2005 Share Posted March 10, 2005 ---------------- On 3/10/2005 8:17:08 PM Fish wrote: ...my local dealer has NO heritage but does have some crap wasting space,imo.Of course Kilpsch don't need me tellin'them their biz so again,imho. ---------------- That's another thing that bugs me. I have to figure that Minneapolis/St. Paul has to be one of the 20th largest metropoliton areas in the US, maybe 30th, and they have NO ONE that carries the Heritage line? I gotta go to Milwaukee? Looking at tmrws' schedule, I can see I should have some free time. I think I'm going to do some checking and see just how far I'd have to drive to hear a set of KHorns at a dealer. I haven't seen a moderator comment in this thread yet, but I'd guess they are aware of it. I feel it IS my biz to tell them, hopefully they are listening to what their potential customers say. Hell, if I could get my wife to hear a set of KHorns properly set up, she may poo-poo the idea of that much cash outlay, but she might not think it was so bad to "step down" to a mere scala or belle. Klipsch, are you listening to what your upper end customers want, or just to what your average Best Buy consumer wants? Look at your heritage. It's IN the Heritage line. It's what got you to where you are now. Get out there and FLAUNT IT!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fini Posted March 10, 2005 Share Posted March 10, 2005 Maybe if Klipsch gave us weaponry (another area of PWK's expertise) and some bullet-proof outfits (with pie-slice logos), more folks would be willing. I like the refreshments idea as well, but how would we communicate with the visitors, to let them know what kind to bring? Personally, I could use a massage and maybe some accupuncture, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D0N Posted March 10, 2005 Share Posted March 10, 2005 I dunno about you guys but when I think back on the first time I heard Klipsch heritage it was at a dealer. Pine tree audio in Scarborough Maine. The year was roughly 1984 and the model was the cornwall. I was so impressed that I vowed to own them some day. About 18 years later I got a pair! I never forgot. If it wasn't for that dealer I would have never been exposed to the klipsch heritage line. Thank god the dealer had them way back then. How many potential customers do you think Klipsch is losing out on because most dealers do not carry any of the heritage line? The heritage line of speakers are all gorgeous! Even if you've never heard of Klipsch you're gonna want to hear the Khorns, belles, lascals and heresys when you see them sitting in a dealers demo room ...because they're so beautiful. If that dealer in Maine didn't have those CWs playing that day way back in 1984 I probably wouldn't be here today. I sure as heck would own a klf-c7, a ksw-15 and a pair of klipschorns. Not to mention the CWs and the heresys I've owned and foolishly sold. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3dzapper Posted March 10, 2005 Share Posted March 10, 2005 fini, Just have some LA gang members over for a listen. They'll give you a "massage" and after you tell them where you hid the money, the'll give you accupuncture! I demo my Khorns to whoever comes over like the Mailman, the Plumber, the guy who built my shed, etc. it's as good as a tip right? Log home manufacturers have a program similiar to what Colin proposes. You build a log home and become a dealer. Then, you recieve a commission on each customer you entertain and close. Rick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fish Posted March 10, 2005 Share Posted March 10, 2005 Thats funny stuff,I love a thread that makes me laugh out loud. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.4knee Posted March 10, 2005 Share Posted March 10, 2005 ---------------- On 3/10/2005 7:20:00 PM Q-Man wrote: What kind of percentage could you expect from a sale? You would need something for bringing some nut into your home and wasting your time. If you had a store, it would be one thing. Do you really want strangers to come to your home? Why do you have a need to show off your stuff? Can't you just be satisfied with it? ---------------- Could not have said it better. Would I demo for a freind yes. I agree with Q-Man my tweaks are for me, if someone wants to hear what I have done that is one thing but I am not going to just invite an unknown factor/quantity into my home to say here listen to this. I will concede inviting forum member does have an aura the of unknown but most of us 40+ old farts are pretty harmless. I would rather there were more genuine authorized retailers who carry in stock the Heritage stuff but Klipsch has a unique problem having to compete with its past. I believe most of BOSE potential customers are not canvassing the Internet for a vintage set of 601s. Klipsch however has to compete with every set of Heritage items being offered for sale and almost without failure the stuff always sells. That is a daunting problem to overcome. So on some twisted level I can understand if they want to distance themselves from that past, I don't agrere with it though because the guy who would have turned 101 yesterday is the reason why we are all here in the first place. . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted March 10, 2005 Author Share Posted March 10, 2005 First, let me thank you for all your kind responses and insights. I am surprised that the stranger in the home is the primary objection. This would probably only be one or two at time, and infrequently at best. They would have to contact you first, and you would have to reciprocate and then tell them your address. If anything happened, the police would know how to get a hold of them. The current Heritage line is close enough to the past models for people to get the idea it certainly is as close as hearing them in a dealership would be. There they are often stuffed into corners of treated rooms and played with megawatt receivers hardly more of fair comparison than hearing them in somebodys home. I see the legal angle and realize that it would have to be an altruistic endeavor, which is why I mentioned it in my post. No living off the business. That was not the idea. Anybody can go into the audio business out of their home. I simply thought a listening network would be nice. Someone dealers or Klipsch could refer customers to. Klipsch has already decided. They sit back and collect hundreds of orders for their Duisenbergs without having to win any races. No percentage. Yes, I want to show off my system to people who have not heard big ole horns. Personally, I think that video will enhance audio someday. When we want to see and hear a 3D sonic and visual holographic image, we will need incredible projection devices and great loudspeakers, or it wont seem real. If I were Klipsch, I would make in-wall versions of the Heritage, for new and custom HTs! Line em up at my door, I will accommodate them all. Listening time begins at 8, when I get home and lasts till 10, when I want to watch Law & Order or something. I have been to many meetings at people houses, havent you? Log homes hell, we did it with dome homes in MN. Without a listening network, these big ole horns and Altecs, and others can fade away. People will be left thinking Bose is the best. We can fight back with the truthand Diana Krall! Thats it? More objections to Klipsch Co. and fear of strangers than volunteers? Man, I am not made for this world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kev313 Posted March 10, 2005 Share Posted March 10, 2005 Colin, First of all, I admire your enthusiasm for "big ole" horns. That said, I wan't no part of this idea. Frankly, I don't care what other people think of horns or Heritage Klipsch speakers. I have the speakers I want, others are free to take their own path. Again, I don't care where that path leads them. I have a job. When I come home, I don't want to volunteer my time to Klipsch and company. That's nuts. They can promote their own products or let them die and let the new ideas such as Jubilee die on the vine with them. The MOST that I would get out of that would be to be a part of some grass roots groundswell of support for big, "old fashioned," boxy speakers which would result in the production of the Jubilee. Now, bear in mind I actually REALLY LIKE Heritage speakers. I just wanted to illustrate that they are grossly out of tune with the current marketplace. Nothing I can do, including inviting strangers into my house, will change that. Even if I could "make a difference," I wouldn't do it. My free time is valuable. Klipsch cannot have it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lipinski Posted March 10, 2005 Share Posted March 10, 2005 hell, I can't even find a dealer with a set of RB-75s in a town with a million in population. you guys are nuts. your wastin' air. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heresy2guy Posted March 11, 2005 Share Posted March 11, 2005 Interesting thread here. I think Klipsch might be purposely letting the heritage line die on the vine. I've said this before and I've yet to see a change in anything so I'm gonna say it once again. I don't care what Klipsch might due to the heritage models insofar as crossovers and drivers are concerned because the bottom line simply is this: If the products aren't in the stores to be seen and heard then how the hell are you gonna successfully sell them? Here's my take on it all: Klipsch has elected to not immediately pull the plug on the heritage line for some reason(s). They're heavily concentrating on "modern" speakers, computer-realted multimedia systems, en-vogue electronic gizmo products (like the ipod speaker system), and large home theater based systems. All of this stuff is made off-shore of the cheapest components and lowest-cost labor and then imported into the US and sold to the consumers so Klipsch can make the highest profit they can. In the process, they're letting the Heritage lineup slowly fade away until they can safely point to their then-gathered data saying that it just isn't profitable anymore to continue the lineup. I would say this would occur after poor Ms. Valerie's out of the scenario, in one form or another. Do I think Ms. Valerie has something to do with the Heritage line being kept on life support? Maybe... It might also be that Fred and company would like to be able to point to the fact that the Khorn, LS, & Heresy are still in production after more then 50 years simply for marketing reasons, but they've got no real interest in pushing the product like they do the rest of the Klipsch line. Profit margins probably have something to do with this. I should also point out that perhaps the appearance of the Heritage line has something to do with the lack of interest by the public. Of course, how can the public be interested or not when Klipsch doesn't have them in stores for people to see? It's a catch-22. Maybe the line could be salvaged if they gave the Khorn a face-lift and made it into some post-modern monolithic slab of marble or something? Same can be said of the LS and the Heresy. Let's face it guys, boxy speakers haven't been selling well for years. Most people want speakers that look modern, and boxy speakers certainly don't. The slim, tall, tower design has been the hot ticket item for well over a decade now. Then again, you have a significant number of people who want to hear their speakers but don't want to see them and I suspect this is partially what makes Bose sell so well. I think it's safe to say that anybody searching for either a modern looking speaker or a small, hard-to-see speaker (and there are A LOT of these people) ISN'T going to be in the market for a BIG, boxy Heritage speaker. Look at the guy I bought my La Scalas from! He just got married, just got stationed out here in San Diego, and just moved into a new home. His wife would no sooner have a pair of La Scalas (let alone TWO!!) in her living room then she would the shed you might have in your backyard. THAT'S why the guy sold them. The "WAF," as it's known around here, is an extremely important element in most speaker purchases by guys who are married. Young guys too are interested in what's currently cool, just like do with their set of wheels. No self-respecting college or 20-something guy would like to be told by his peers that either his car or his stereo looks like a relic deserving of a museum pedestal. For mass marketing reasons, I think Klipsch has done a fantastic job on the Reference series. They look modern in design and also look cool and trendy with their copper-colored cones. They also made it a two-way, with the cones producing all of the midrange with the horn handling only the treble. That was a smart move economically for them because it's one less driver for them to have to buy and the crossover's simpler too so they save money on their production costs while still keeping the same MSRP. It was also smart in another way: They took some ammo away from the nay-saying audio press by having the cones produce the midrange. What's the one thing that most professional audio reviewers have harped on when they give negative press on a Klipsch speaker? The fact that it "sounds like a horn." Klipsch pulled the rug out from under them by having the Reference and Synergy series use cones for the all-important midrange. I can't recall having seen one article by any audio magazine claiming either line to sound "horny" like they use to do to the Heritage lineup (including the non-tractrix Chorus & Forte models). If anybody's got one, I'll be happy to read it but I have yet to come across any. That's always been a big complaint by the swollen-headed audio writers about Klipsch speakers - they sound like horns and horns aren't "refined" and horns are "colored" and horns sound "offensive." If I've seen it once in print I've seen it a hundred times. In fact, I recall an article in Stereo Review when the Forte II came out wherein the writer praises them because they really didn't sound "horny" due to the then-new Klipsch tractrix horn. Let's face it - for many, many years audio writers in general have bashed Klipsch speakers due to their horns and it's the midrange squawker that can best be described as the most offensive because it produces the bulk of the vocals and instruments that we hear. By eliminating the midrange squaker, Klipsch effectively tamed the savage beast in the audio writers' eyes and ensured themselves more favorable reviews. Why? To sell more speakers! Klipsch has been *aggressively* marketing it's enite line-up--both residentially and commercially--for some time now and it seems like Klipsch speakers are practically everywhere, which is very good, financially-speaking, for Klipsch. More power to them I say! And I'm also sure the job would have been harder if they were getting scores of bad press and reviews from the major audio publications. I've heard talk about Klipsch reintroducing a midrange squawker on the upcoming Reference Premier line. We'll see. If they do, they'll obviously sound quite different then the current 2-way Reference series. I would think that Klipsch would like to make the option of a 3-way or 2-way system available by offering both a Reference Premier and "regular" Reference line. That could satisfy both schools of thought in that old 2-way VS 3-way debate. Unfortunately, it could also set the stage for them to yank the IV out of the old Heritage series. I like to think, however, that Fred Klipsch wants to be able to say that at least the Khorn--the company founder's own personal baby--is still in production and is the oldest speaker model still made today. That could make for some good marketing material and ensures that at least the Khorn will live on, if not the LS and Heresy models. As for Colin's initial post about offering Heritage speakers for audition in people's private homes I can only say that I think for liability reasons Klipsch wouldn't even let somebody finish making the pitch to them before they were glancing at their watch and telling you they're sorry but they're afraid they'll have to cut the meeting short.... I think it's really terrific to get together with fellow audio enthusiasts (Klipsch enthusiasts in particular), in order to demo and test varying equipment. But I shudder when I think of some of the people I run across in Best Buy or Circuit City actually coming through my front door and walking around my home! Personally speaking, I don't fear for myself--I'm a fit 32 year-old former jar-head who's basically armed to the teeth. But I do have a wife I've been married to for nearly 12 years now...and four kids ranging in age from 10 years to 3 weeks so I'm not about to expose them to a potentially harmful scenario. Case closed. Like somebody else said, if Klipsch was doing everything they could to sell the Heritage line but it was still falling short then they'd at least get sympathy from me...and if I was without baggage, I might consider the demo-at-home school of thought for the interested public-at-large. But the fact is, Klipsch isn't doing it's fair share, plain and simple. And the possibility is, it might be intentional. -H2G Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fgarib Posted March 11, 2005 Share Posted March 11, 2005 Wow! Interesting, interesting thread! Heresy2Guy, I agree with you wholly on the fact that Klispch just is not promoting it's Heritage line like we feel they should be. I also agree wtih you in that Kllipsch is catering more towards the higher margin driver-based mass market out there. However, I don't necessarily think that this is a bad thing. In fact, the way the competition is nowadays, if Klipsch doesn't do exactly what they are doing, they stand a good chance at losing their place in the market. I don't have much experience in the commercial side of the audio business, but knowing distribution channels and sales strategies like I do, how they are promoting the Reference and Synergy lines is just what the doctor ordered. In our food product based manufacturing company, we live by one maxim, and one maxim only: If the distributor is not happy with your product, the end customer will never get to see it. In other words, the task that Klipsch was faced with was nearly insurmountable. Changing an entire line of horn-based, hand manufactured and highly costly products into a line of highly competitive, high distributor margin giving products that not only stayed true to the company's founder's beliefs, but also catered to the existing market and satisfied the stakeholders in teh middle. If they hadn't received the reviews that you mentioned, I highly doubt that there would be ANY Klipsch product in ANY home 5 years from now, save for us die-hard Heritage owners. Colin, great thread. H2G, great response. Really, really made me think. Regards, -F PS: I had typed a huge response before this, and not all of it showed up in the preview. How do I type longer responses? Max, perhaps you could help out here? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DAX616 Posted March 11, 2005 Share Posted March 11, 2005 Crack smokers will see your gear and be back to steal it when your not home.Unless you have a gun in your house in which case the will shoot you with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxg Posted March 11, 2005 Share Posted March 11, 2005 I am very happy to be a demo home for Heritage with one small issue to address first. I dont have any. But for a free pair of Belles I will do demos to the Devil! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Robinson Posted March 11, 2005 Share Posted March 11, 2005 ---------------- On 3/11/2005 6:34:02 AM fgarib wrote: PS: I had typed a huge response before this, and not all of it showed up in the preview. How do I type longer responses? Max, perhaps you could help out here? ---------------- One thing you can do if you want to post a long one is to draft/edit it in Word, saving as you develop, then log into here and copy/paste the text into the box. It should all show up, and if it doesn't, do it again Colin, interesting idea but I have to agree with others here. I have three kids and a wife, and I travel a lot for business (30+ weeks a year). When I'm home, I want to be home and enjoy the peace, quiet and family. This idea might appeal more to younger folks who have less interlaced life styles where family members aren't always going somewhere and doing something. If I was an empty nester and retired, I might feel differently as well. Not sure. I don't need or want the money from this idea, but I'm always willing to invite Forum members over for a visit -- and have done so many times. The goodwill derived from making new friends and sharing common interests is my chicken soup for the soul. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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