Solid State Pre with Tube amp.....what's your take?

[Elydaman]

With all the talk about a tube pre amp and good tubes as the perfect mate for Khorns....do you think that staying with a SS pre amp and switching to tube amps will do the "new" tube sound justice? I don't think I can make a financial jump to all tubes just now. Besides, I want to use my current pre Sony TAE 9000 to source my HT, decode DTS, etc. I don't know of any tube pre with the features that the high end SS have.

AND, I don't want to be switching imputs and outputs to jump between two channel music and 5.1 movies.

What are your thoughts on the best of both worlds?

[BillH2121]

I just switched from a SS Mac 2125 (120 watts x 2) to a Mac 2102 (tube - 100 watts x 2) and I still use my old SS C26 preamp. I love the sound - the 2102 diggs as deep as the 2125 but the bass is more resonant and musical sounding. The mid and high end is sweet. I plan to eventually go to a tube preamp, but, like you, I can't afford to do it right now. Make the switch, enjoy the music and change to a tube pre when you can.

[Colin]

my tube Pas # does offer plenty of switching option, but I know what you mean, if I wanted to go 7.1, I would have to go SS pre-amp and tube amps....

Khorns love tubes and sound great with them!

some people think the pre-amp is more important with big ole horns than the amp, I don't agree

[Guy Landau]

It might work just fine. I've had a very good experience with a SS Threshold preamp driving tube amps and Khorns.

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On 3/15/2005 11:12:40 PM Colin wrote:

some people think the pre-amp is more important with big ole horns than the amp, I don't agree

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IMO, preamps in general are more important than amps. I have heard and owned too many real good amplifiers but too little real good preamps.

[J.4knee]

If you want to go tube amps and still do HT decoding you are pretty much relegated to an SS pre. My end goal if someone would drop a bag o f cash in my lap would be a MAC MX 135 and 6 or 7 VRD's.

If you are talking 2-channel only then you have more options like maybe a Peach/Blueberry - VRD combo. Waynes VTL/ Sonic Frontiers rig sounded very good. One thing is for sure your preamp determines your sound signature. Which is why most will tell you get a good tube pre first and then save for a good set of tube amps. A poor SS Pre and tubes will likely not yield the results you want. Having said that a great pre and poor SS amp wont be anything to dance over either but should generally be more palatable than the converse.

[AndyKubicki]

Let me post Jim's words here from our listening session where we had the Peach and VRDs and swapped in a good SS preamp:

I have been a Solid State type all of my life, not necessarily by preference, I just never had the opportunity to try tubes. The marriage of tubes to horns is a very sweet pairing indeed. Absent is any hint of harshness or forwardness in the mids and highs. I love the K77 but SS amps in my experience do leave a livable crispness that can be a little to forward on certain selections. The Peach and VRDs were up and running when Andy played the Stravinsky Firebird piece. What a breathtaking, completely enveloping, lift you up and sit you right back down experience that was. Next we swapped in a solid-state preamp of Andys, while it sounded good it was immediately evident that your sonic signature is definitely founded in your preamp. The SS preamp sounded a little smaller and compact, the sound stage was more or less reduced.

The Audire is a great preamp http://www.audire.com/prod01.htm , but it did pale in comparison to the Peach. I would like to hear it mated to an Audire amp someday, just to see if the mating with the tubed amp was bad synergy...

[edwinr]

In my view, whether the preamp is tube or solid state is not so crucial. The important decision lies with the choice of a tube over a solid state power amp.

Without doubt, the best upgrade for any Klipsch owner with a good quality surround sound receiver, is to purchase a quality tube stereo (or two mono blocs) power amp for the main speakers . The centre and surround speakers can be driven by the receiver's built in amps. The tube power amp can be driven by the receiver's pre-outs.

[leok]

Due to the hight efficiency of horn loaded speakers, they operate at very low power. Power transistor circuits are at their worst at these low powers and in my opinion are the most likely to be the cause of harsh, thin sound. Preamp stages can use smaller devices operating class A in a more linear region and are less likely to cause as much damage.

If you get a chance, try a simple stereo attenuator (passive preamp). They are available with source switching and remote control if you find you like the sound.

Still, if I were to consider a preamp I would make sure I try a good tube model, like one of Mark Deneen's or Jeff Lessard's to be sure I wasn't just trashing the sound by using a ss pre.

Leo

[Erik Mandaville]

I think it depends more on the circuit in question, since I have heard examples of both wherein I preferred a good tube linestage over a more 'challenged' (to my subjective ears)solid state design. The reverse of that equation has been experienced, as well.

Another very fine example of an outstanding linestage would be the Transcendent Sound Grounded Grid, which I have built and used on a few occasions. It has very good speed and transient response, in a addition to smoothness and absolutely zero residual noise with very efficient speakers. The price is quite attractive, as well.

The Peach is also a great preamp, and I'm late for school!

Erik

[fini]

Of course, carpenters also have the sayings, "Good enough for who it's for," "Can't see it from my house," and the ever popular "You ain't building a piano!" (This last one is said to the co-worker who is fussing with something that won't matter to the end result, like planing a stud that's 1/16" too wide. I often wonder what they say in piano factories.)

I got a million of 'em...

[sfogg]

Mark,

" One solution is to use a preamp with an "HT BYPASS". This allows you to connect your HT source THROUGH a 2-channel preamp and directly into your HT processor"

Don't know how you implement this in your pre-amps but most have either a physical button or input that needs to get selected for the bypass to happen.

I nice way (IMO) is to put the outputs of the pre-amp through a DPDT NO relay that is energized when the pre-amp is on. The pre-amps signal goes to the closed side of the relay and the HT bypass goes to the open side.

That way if the pre-amp is on it is connected to the amps and doing its thing. When you shut off the pre-amp it automatically switches to HT bypass mode.

Makes useage easier for higher WAF and what not. As a side bonus with a small timer circuit you can use the relay for power on muting while the tubes stabalize.

Similarly for those that have a pre-amp that doesn't have a HT bypass but have a processor with a 12v PWR trigger they can build a box which does much the same thing. If the processor is off the pre-amp is connected to the amps, turn on the processor and it gets connected to the amps.

Shawn

[Colin]

all good advice, except for the foggy answers above, not sure what those devices he mentions are...

[edwinr]

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On 3/16/2005 8:26:09 AM mdeneen wrote:

One solution is to use a preamp with an "HT BYPASS". This allows you to connect your HT source THROUGH a 2-channel preamp and directly into your HT processor.

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That's a good solution - regarding a bypass. In the past I've used an integrated amplifer with a surround amplifier. With no home theatre bypass, I've has to set my intergrated amplifier's volume control at an arbitrary level. Not ideal, but it worked okay.