vgtvidz Posted May 13, 2005 Share Posted May 13, 2005 Ok, I asked this a while ago and i'm still unsure, summer is here, more money is coming, it's time to change my stupid yamaha receiver. The only problem is, I'm not rich , I got RF-35 and I'm planning to buy the RC-35 and RS-35 probably next year, so I need somethinig that will be good for the next few years, I'v got around 1000$ CDN to spend... from what I've been told on another forum (ecoustics), I could go with the HK AVR-235 or 335, which would be enough, I just want to crank and dont get any problem because right now, my receiver (Yamaha RVX350) keep chocking when I crank it at -10db. The only thing that bugs me with HK is the power rating, I know that HK is very conservative about their power rating and i'm not sure that I understand everything about the watts/ohm/db etc. the AVR-235 is rated at 55watts and AVR-335 at 60watts and my speakers can support up to 125watts (how can a 55watts receiver be able to provide all the power for 125watts speakers??) I just want the full potential that my speakers can do and I'll be happy! if you have any other options, tell me, I'm confused and that's it!! hehe Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
divin11112000 Posted May 13, 2005 Share Posted May 13, 2005 I have the same issue although I've read a few things about this issue. Since the RF-35's are rated at 98dB@2.83 volts/1 meter. (They are at 98 decibles with about 1watt of power at 1 meter away from the speaker). Since power doubles for every 3dB change is spl, to get to 101dB you will need 2watts. What I would suggest, sit in your listening position and turn the volume to the desired setting (use the test tones or a disc for calibrating). Now move your SPL meter about 1meter away from your speakers and figure out what dB they are playing at. From here you can calculate how many watts your speakers are actually using when you listen to it that loud. My guess is unless you have a HUGE room and your going to rediculous volumes your not using too many watts. Say your dB 1meter away from the speaker with the volume at your desired listening position is 110 you will have needed to double your watts 4 times. So at 1 watt your 98dB, 101dB your 1+1=2, at 104dB your 2+2=4, at 107dB your 4+4=8, at 110dB your 8+8=16. So if your listening position sounds loud enough and your testing the SPL at 1meter away and it reads 110dB your actually only using 16watts of power to push your speaker. That would mean you have 49watts of head room. I am using a pioneer vsx d811s that claims 100watts per channel (although it doesn't say all driven). I have been concerned about power also, but after I do this "test" I will find out for sure if I should be concerned. Now I may be off base, and if I am hopefully someone will correct me. I am fairly new to this and hopefully have understood everything correctly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IAmtnbikr Posted May 13, 2005 Share Posted May 13, 2005 I am quite happy with my refurb Denon AVR-2105. Honest 90wpc with provisions to add in for a 7.1 system or a 5.1 + a second 2-channel system. Got it for $460 USD from dakmart.com with no issues whatsover, and a warranty as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vgtvidz Posted May 13, 2005 Author Share Posted May 13, 2005 From what I've heard, Denon is too bright for Klipsch, is that right? I dont like my Yamaha because it's too bright, that's why I thought HK would be a good option! divin11112000, where can I get a SPL, what does it looks like, how much is it!??! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psg Posted May 13, 2005 Share Posted May 13, 2005 It might have been me making that recommendation on ecoustics. If you're a fellow Canadian, I assume i've told you to buy from a borderfree.com affiliated e-site such as www.ecost.com or www.etronics.com? You'll pay about half price for your h/k receiver: For example: harman/kardon avr-235: etronics.com: US$329.95 -> C$546.51 (total, shipped) ecost.com: US$336.00 -> C$537.68 (total, shipped) Future Shop: C$899.99 -> C$1035 (after taxes) The bigger harman/kardon avr-335 is C$1300 + taxes (C$1495) at Future Shop and is C$728.76 shipped to your door from www.etronics.com. Now, as to power... first of all, h/k rate their power very conservatively. My avr-325 is rated at 2x60W (as I recall) and 7x55W, but was tested by a magazine to 2x107W continuous. Second, there's only 3 dB between 50W and 100W, so don't get too hung up on it. It's better to get something that sounds good in the first place. h/k receivers have good amplifiers that handle low impedence well; I'm sure your speakers will sound better on it. As for the 3 dB, you won't likely listen to anything close to 0db anyway! Just how loud do you want it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bytor33 Posted May 13, 2005 Share Posted May 13, 2005 If you can get an HK AVR 430 or 630 on ebay from Harman Kardon direct go that route. The problem is they only ship to the US. I have the AVR 430 and the RF-35's sound great with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vgtvidz Posted May 13, 2005 Author Share Posted May 13, 2005 Lol yeha peter, you told me to get it from ecosts or etronics, well loud, when I say loud, its just, loud... loud enough so my mom would be reallllly pissed, lol, anyway with my RVX-350, I used to be able to crank it at -5db and I was happy, I mean, that was loud, yet the receiver couldnt handle it more than 2minutes, now, it cant even handle -10db, go figure, but yeah, I just want to push it and get a good sound, I think I'll buy one from Futurshop, test it for a weekend and return it! (I love their return policy!!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psg Posted May 13, 2005 Share Posted May 13, 2005 ---------------- On 5/13/2005 2:08:39 PM vgtvidz wrote: Lol yeha peter, you told me to get it from ecosts or etronics, well loud, when I say loud, its just, loud... loud enough so my mom would be reallllly pissed, lol, anyway with my RVX-350, I used to be able to crank it at -5db and I was happy, I mean, that was loud, yet the receiver couldnt handle it more than 2minutes, now, it cant even handle -10db, go figure, but yeah, I just want to push it and get a good sound, I think I'll buy one from Futurshop, test it for a weekend and return it! (I love their return policy!!) ---------------- Well, seems your current receiver is the problem then. I crank loud music (105 dB) to about -10 dB on the dial on occasion, but I've got La Scala which are a little more efficient. I crank the receiver to about +7dB on a friend's very inefficient speakers that happen to also be a tougher load at 4 ohms nominal. No problem with the receiver. It does get hot then, but it has never shut down or anything like that. I watch movies at around -25 dB and Reference level is at -17 dB. As for myself, I can't bring myself to buy something from a store that I know I'll return to get it cheaper elsewhere... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vgtvidz Posted May 13, 2005 Author Share Posted May 13, 2005 I understand your point about the "return thing", you know, I've lost any respect about stores like Futureshop/Bureau En gros because I've worked in those for too many years, so I dont care anymore, I know its not the "right" way to act but hey, I think I'm not conscientious! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IAmtnbikr Posted May 13, 2005 Share Posted May 13, 2005 ---------------- From what I've heard, Denon is too bright for Klipsch, is that right? ---------------- Hmm.....pretty much the opposite of what everyone else says. I am very pleased with my Denon, and the sound quality is awesome even with what I term as entry-level Reference speakers. Some claim the Yamaha is too bright, while others rave about them. Best thing would be to try and find some of the exact receivers you are curious about nearby and try to demo them. In the end....there is only one person whose opinion matters....yours! That said, the Denon is a great performer IMO... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ric Posted May 13, 2005 Share Posted May 13, 2005 hey DZ> you may want to look at Onkyo txsr-702 the Onkyo has a real nice sound with the Klipsch series ref. speakers. I used to run the onkyo before I went seperates and I thought it sounded the best compared to Denon, and Harmon K. and the like. The Onkyo gives you a nice warm feeling and the formats are up to date. If your dealer will let you do a in home trial I suggest that you give it a try. Onkyo uses the wide wrat amplifer design, and gives you clean sound and the crossover points are @ 80hz. let us know how you make out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vgtvidz Posted May 14, 2005 Author Share Posted May 14, 2005 Does anyone ever bought a refurbished receiver? if so, can we trust those, because they're a lot cheaper! I could get the Onkyo TX-SR602 refurbished for 285$ US on ecost.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colterphoto1 Posted May 14, 2005 Share Posted May 14, 2005 don't know if anyone has mentioned it, but the HT reciever manufacturers are playing the ratings game again. Remember back in the 70's there was about 4 different ways to rate watts? Look for this Watts per channel 20-20,000 Hz, ALL channels driven, .0? THD. You have to have all of this for a meaningful comparison. Why? Because some folks rate at 1kHz only, it's easy to be loud at this middle frequency. If you don't run all channels while testing, a single channel can put out quite a bit more power if it's run by itself. You also want a meaningful distortion measurement, but they're all pretty decent these days. For instance, Yamaha HTR series are rated at 1kHz, the RXV pro series is rated at 20-20,000. Probably can deduct 30% (I'm guessing here) from the HTR series to compare. Michael Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psg Posted May 14, 2005 Share Posted May 14, 2005 ---------------- On 5/14/2005 9:34:43 AM vgtvidz wrote: Does anyone ever bought a refurbished receiver? if so, can we trust those, because they're a lot cheaper! I could get the Onkyo TX-SR602 refurbished for 285$ US on ecost.com ---------------- I got my h/k avr-325 a little over a year ago as a manufacturer refurb from ecost.com for a low price. When it got here, it was missing the second zone remote control. I wasn't planning on ever using the second zone but would have liked the simplicity of the second remote control. I emailed tham and they offered to take the unit back altogether for a full refund, or credit me something like US$40 (I'd have to look it up). I was satisfied with this offer and took them up on it. If it were easier for us Canadians to buy from ubid.com, there are a bunch of Marantz SR8400 being auctioned off. The last batch went below $500 as I recall, which is an incredible deal. http://www.ubid.com/actn/opn/getpage.asp?AuctionId=10373206 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IAmtnbikr Posted May 14, 2005 Share Posted May 14, 2005 Yes, my Denon AVR-2105 is a refurb from dakmart.com, no issues and has a warranty. A great deal IMO... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vgtvidz Posted May 14, 2005 Author Share Posted May 14, 2005 Well I think I made my choice, Harmon Kardon AVR-235/335 is going to be my choice, I went to a local store at montreal and was able to auditione my speakers with a Pioneer Elite, a Integra and finaly a Harman Kardon receiver, the sound was soo nice with the HK AVR that I fall in love with it, I also tried my speakers with the Klipsch RW-12 subwoofer and I want one! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IAmtnbikr Posted May 14, 2005 Share Posted May 14, 2005 If you are on a budget, consider the new Klipsch Sub-12 if you can get them up there. Apparantly here Best Buy is the only channel the Synergy line is available through....arghhh.....Amy and gang, you really need to let your Reference dealers in on the Synergy stuff as well! I had Synergy speakers before both due to the quality of Klipsch and the excellent local dealer I have here.....it kind of frosted me to have to go to BB to get the new sub. Support those dealers who are the true hardcore Klipsch people as well, not just the mass-merchandisers!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vgtvidz Posted May 14, 2005 Author Share Posted May 14, 2005 Well I can get the RW-12 for 650$ CDN from a local retailer which is probably something around 520$ USA... its actualy a pretty good price in Canada (since everything seems to be more expensive when it comes to audio), I'll sell my RW-8 so it will give me some money for my upgrade! cant wait to buy everything at the end of the summer, my parents are going to freak and I hope they wont ask the price cuz they'll freak even more, I told them my RF-35 were 400$CDN (well that I had a "deal" anyway, they believed me. If they realise I've spend all that money on a sound system, my dad might die from a heart attack! So yeah, I love Klipsch! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-Rex Posted May 15, 2005 Share Posted May 15, 2005 ---------------- On 5/14/2005 10:12:29 PM vgtvidz wrote: Well I can get the RW-12 for 650$ CDN from a local retailer which is probably something around 520$ USA... its actualy a pretty good price in Canada (since everything seems to be more expensive when it comes to audio), I'll sell my RW-8 so it will give me some money for my upgrade! cant wait to buy everything at the end of the summer, my parents are going to freak and I hope they wont ask the price cuz they'll freak even more, I told them my RF-35 were 400$CDN (well that I had a "deal" anyway, they believed me. If they realise I've spend all that money on a sound system, my dad might die from a heart attack! So yeah, I love Klipsch! ---------------- Dang, kid, you've got the audio bug bad! When I was your age I was more focused on my 67 Chevy pick-up, hoping it would help me pick-up the chicks... (now, you're wondering how well I did... Ha, let's just say I didn't have that much money to poor into it, unfortunately.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IAmtnbikr Posted May 15, 2005 Share Posted May 15, 2005 Lol...just remember, it's better to ask forgiveness than permission! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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