DVD+R-R+RW-RW = confused.....

[endover]

This DVD mess reminds me (sadly) of the days of beta or VHS? What to do, what to do....?

Okay...I don't much care about the technical side of why a DVD is +R or -R(and I understand the difference between Read and Read/Write). What I'm trying to figure out is which one to buy(+ or -) so that I will be able to transfer my DVD videos onto a format that I (and the grandma's) can play so that they can see their grandbaby's! I have no idea what type of dvd player they have.

I thought it was just the way the information was written to the disk and didn't realize until I was in Wal-Mart last night and had to make a quick decision that there are +R and -R disks. I opted for the -R pack which by default means that you guys are going to tell me that +R would have been a much better choice....ha!

My Dell Laptop has a duel layer combo drive so I have options...

Whaddayathink?

[Jay L]

it has been said that +R is more compatable with most dvd players out there. i have been using -R for about a year. i have yet to find a dvd player that WON'T play them. that being said i have also used +R a few times and they have worked in every DVD player i have come across as well. i would suggest you buy a small 10 pack of each then burn the +R first, if it doesn't work then burn a -R. then buy in bulk whichever type plays in your family's dvd players best.

[JJkizak]

Most of the replicators will burn in -R and ask you if you want +R. They will supply both. There are some players that do not play +R and some that do not play -R. -RW and +RW along the same lines. Most of the new players will play both and most of the new burners will burn both. There is also +R Dual Layer and -R Dual Layer and only the newest players can play them. Don't confuse it with DVD-Audio, SACD, DVD, DV-R, DV+R, MP3, WMV, JPG, GIF, AAF, ACC, DTS, THX, and I forgot the rest.

JJK

[toddvj]

I've had more compatibility issues with +R than -R. My DVD player will play anything, but when I've given homemade movies to my relatives, some of them cannot play +R. I've had no problems with -R, with relatives or friends, and have switched to them exclusively,

[DrWho]

Everything and more than you ever wanted to know:

http://www.videohelp.com/dvd

_____________________________________________________________________

DVD-R and DVD-RW

DVD-R was the first DVD recording format released that was compatible with standalone DVD Players.

DVD-R is a non-rewriteable format and it is compatible with about 93% of all DVD Players and most DVD-ROMs.

DVD-RW is a rewriteable format and it is compatible with about 80% of all DVD Players and most DVD-ROMs.

DVD-R and DVD-RW supports single side 4.37 computer GB* DVDs(called DVD-5) and double sided 8.75 computer GB* DVDs(called DVD-10).

These formats are supported by DVDForum.

DVD+R and DVD+RW

DVD+R is a non-rewritable format and it is compatible with about 89% of all DVD Players and most DVD-ROMs.

DVD+RW is a rewritable format and is compatible with about 79% of all DVD Players and most DVD-ROMs.

DVD+R and DVD+RW supports single side 4.37 computer GB* DVDs(called DVD-5) and double side 8.75 computer GB* DVDs(called DVD-10).

These formats are supported by the DVD+RW Alliance.

DVD+R DL

DVD+R DL or called DVD+R9 is a Dual Layer writeable DVD+R. The dual layered discs can hold 7.95 computer GB* (called DVD-9) and dual layered double sides 15.9* computer GB (called dvd-18).

DVD-RAM

DVD-RAM has the best recording features but it is not compatible with most DVD-ROM drives and DVD-Video players. Think more of it as a removable hard disk. DVD-RAM is usually used in some DVD Recorders.

This format is supported by DVDForum.

Read our DVD Writers and Recorders list and read also our DVD Players Compatibility list to see what types your standalone DVD Player supports. You find more detailed comparisons between the formats in the more info section here.

_____________________________________________________________________

There's more info if you click on the link and scroll down a bit...

[dragonfyr]

What is the difference between DVD-R and DVD+R?

To answer this question in very simple terms: almost none.

The main difference seems to lie in the DVDs' built-in defects management and the way they can be formatted.

With CD-R & CD+R, the '-R' format requires 'finishing', that last additional step before they can be used for playback, rendering +R much more desirable for unattended data backups.

And like CD-R & CD+R, the "+" designation came about as it was the 'next' generation format.

So here's the skinny on all the current formats (perhaps more then you wanted, but here it is...):

Though the CD created a storage revolution in its time, it has now become commonplace. Its 640 MB capacity has become a bit limiting, so much so that most makers only offer 80-minute blank CD-Rs with 700 MB. So the DVD is the answer to the big storage requirements that hard disks of 60, 80 or 120 GB now entail. DVDs have a nominal capacity of 4.7 GB, so in practice you can record just a bit under 4.5 GB.

Such high capacity also implies new applications. While the CD was intended mainly for music with very little video, the DVD is really designed for digital video and multi-channel sound. Since it hit the market a few years ago, the public has always known it to be ideal for video, so it is now quite natural for it to be presented as the storage medium for home movies that are usually filmed with digital camcorders. But in addition to video, there are now a lot more audio DVDs around. These provide sound with a better sampling rate, so the quality is higher and sounds much more like the original. DVD audio can also reproduce multi-channel music tracks.

DVD-RW

On the one hand, we have the forerunner Pioneer, who, in accordance with DVD Forum (the entity which controls the DVD name and technical aspects), developed the DVD-RW.

DVD-RAM

DVD-RAM is a sanctioned format of the DVD Forum, a consortium of companies involved in the development of DVD standards. DVD-RAM was a format originally aimed primarily as a data solution, but it is now becoming popular as a video format used by some brands of standalone (non-PC) DVD recorders. DVD-RAM is a very robust data storage solution, theoretically allowing greater than 100000 rewrites per disc.

Early PC-based DVD-RAM recorders used 2.6 GB discs (or double-sided 5.2 GB discs), but current drives also use 4.7 GB discs (or double-sided 9.4 GB discs). DVD-RAM discs are traditionally housed within cartridges, so that the media is well-protected. Originally, the cartridges could not be opened, but newer Type II and Type IV cartridges can be opened, an important feature for those who wish to read these discs in DVD-RAM compatible DVD-ROM drives or standalone DVD players. In addition, some DVD-RAM discs are now sold without cartridges.

In addition to support of the usual DVD UDF formats, DVD-RAM also allows fully integrated OS-level random read/write access similar to hard drives, with both Windows XP (with FAT32) and Mac OS X (with FAT32 or HFS+), as well as on-the-fly write verification.

The main drawback of the DVD-RAM format is its limited read compatibility by DVD-ROM drives and standalone DVD players. DVD-RAM read support with these units is increasing however, partially because of the increasing popularity of home standalone DVD-RAM recorders in home theatre systems.

DVD+RW

On the other hand, there is DVD+RW Alliance, where, among others, we find HP, Philips, Ricoh, Sony, Thomson and Yamaha. They officially claim to have developed a new format because the DVD-RW cannot handle video recording very easily. But it may be that they just don't want to pay royalties to DVD Forum.

The Differences

There is very little difference between DVD-R and DVD+R, both of which can only be written once. They are used in exactly the same way. But you have to be careful with DVD-R because there are two standards for blank disks. The one to use is marked "DVD-R for General Use." The other is marked "DVD-R for Authoring," and it only works for mastering DVD video or data because its composition is different. This sort of DVD-R is not usually available to the general public.

Things get a bit more complicated with DVD-RW and DVD+RW. DVD-RW technology is very similar to that of the CD-RW. For DVD+RW, the Alliance wanted to make video recording easier, especially for home use. So they implemented a technology called Lossless Linking. In DVD+RW video format, a video can be encoded in VBR (variable bit rate). The process of writing at a constant rate takes up a lot of room, so it has to be stopped and started again. This is likely to cause link loss, which makes the disk incompatible with read-only devices like DVD video players. With DVD+RW, the process can be stopped and started again without any link loss. This characteristic makes the format efficient and suitable for random data writing and video applications. With lossless linking, it is also possible to replace any individual block of 32 KB (write unit) with another, without losing compatibility.

For a lossless link, each block of data must be written in the right place with precision (on 1 micron). For this, the groove is controlled by a high-frequency wobble (817 kHz at n=1) to ensure that writing stops and starts in an exact position. The writing clock resulting from the groove is very precise. At the same time, addressing information is stored in the spiral groove by locally inverting the radial wobble mark. There are four addresses per ECC block of 32 KB, so the address format is reliable with wide margins of detection.

DVD-R and DVD-RW are also both formats of the DVD Forum. Both formats generally use 4.7 GB discs, although some professional DVD-R drives use 3.95 GB discs.

DVD-R is a write-once recordable format which allows excellent compatibility with both standalone DVD players and DVD-ROM drives. There are two main types of DVD-R discs: DVD-R for General Use and DVD-R for Authoring. Most consumer DVD-R burners use the cheaper General Use discs, while some professional burners use Authoring discs. The correct media type appropriate for the recorder must be used when burning a DVD-R. However, once written, the discs should be readable in either drive type. (General Use DVD-R is designed to prevent backup of encrypted commercial DVDs.)

DVD-RW media uses rewriteable discs which are rated for more than 1000 rewrites in ideal situations. The majority of standalone DVD players will play video recorded on DVD-RW discs, but the compatibility is not as high as with DVD-R.

Current DVD-RW recorders also record to DVD-R. However, the reverse was not always true. Some older DVD-R recorders were not capable of writing to DVD-RW discs (although some were able to read DVD-RW discs burned with other drives).

DVD-RW and DVD-R have heavy penetration into the professional multimedia market as well as the general consumer market. For instance, the Apple SuperDrive, found in many pro and consumer Mac computers, is simply a DVD-R/DVD-RW (and CD-R/CD-RW) capable burner.

Support of combinations of several of the formats are available in many current drives. Recorders that conform to the DVD Forums DVD Multi Recorder standard will record to DVD-RAM, DVD-R, and DVD-RW. Other recorders also record to both +R/+RW and DVD-R/DVD-RW. Some drives are even able to record to all of the DVD Forum and DVD+RW Alliance formats. In addition to the various DVD formats, most drives will also record to CD-R and CD-RW discs.

DVD-RAM discs cannot be used in most standalone DVD players and DVD-ROM drives, and this has historically made this format less attractive for the average home user. However, the integrated OS-level drag-and-drop read/write data support of DVD-RAM makes it very attractive for some users, especially now that most current DVD-RAM burners also support DVD-R burning for video applications. DVD-RAM capable PC drives will also be ideal for those whom already own DVD-RAM based camcorders or standalone DVD-RAM recorders.

DVD-R/DVD-RW drives currently have the highest market penetration, both with PCs and Macs. As previously mentioned, DVD-R enjoys high compatibility with standalone DVD players. In addition, the low cost of DVD-RW is attractive to many for backup purposes. Furthermore, most standalone DVD players will read DVD-RW as well, although the compatibility rate is lower than with DVD-R.

DVD+R/DVD+RW is gaining market share, and these discs appear to have similar compatibility on standalone DVD players as DVD-R/DVD-RW discs. Similarly, current functionality with these drives is similar to DVD-R/DVD-RW drives, both for data and for video applications, and they likely are equally reliable.

External DVD recorders

DVD recorders exist in SCSI and IDE formats. Most external DVD recordable drives are essentially IDE drives with USB 2 or Firewire 1394a bridges and custom housing. These drives can be purchased as complete drives, but one may purchase a standard IDE DVD burner for use in a third party USB 2 or Firewire enclosure. Besides ease of installation, an external drive offers the ability to use a single drive with multiple computers.

Many laptops now include DVD burners as the primary optical drive. If one does not have an internal DVD burner, one may use an external drive, connected to a Firewire or USB 2 port on the laptop. This port can be either built-in or on an add-in PCMCIA adapter card.

The fastest desktop burners (as of September 2003) are 8X for DVD+/-R and 4X for DVD+/-RW. Laptop DVD burners usually have a 2X maximum DVD burn speed.

Archiving

If your main goal is to archive data, the DVD-R format (Pioneer DVR-A05 or TEAC DV-W50E) is the best choice. 4x burn speed gives you your result in 15 minutes. The time saved compared to DVD+R at 2.4x (over 24 minutes) is not to be sneezed at.

Video

However, if you are more interested in video, the DVD+RW format is still the best solution. It is much more flexible to use and, what's more, it is compatible with Philips home players.

Compatibility

In the end, apart from certain technical differences between the two formats which prevent you from using a DVD+RW disk on a DVD-RW burner and vice versa, the final recorded disk (DVD-RW or DVD+RW) is read-compatible with DVD-ROM drives, home players and even DVD-RW or DVD+RW burners. Most of the branded home DVD players released within the last two months are not just DVD-RW- or DVD+RW-compatible, they are also DVD-R- and DVD+R-compatible. For older players, the compatibility rate is 80%.

Blank Disks

Never has the quality of blank disks been more important. No-name disks from Asia may cut prices, but above all, they cut quality. DVD recording absolutely must be done on good quality disks, and this means branded ones.

ref: Tom's Hardware

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Oh, and I am surprised that no one to my knowledge has started a debate regarding the different DYES used in CD & DVD+-R disks! And yes, there IS a big difference!

But rather then take up even MORE space, I will point you to great site with all of this data as well as a source for Taiyo Yuden bulk disks (this is a site replicators normally use for sourcing)

Dyes (and much more if you check out the home page!):

http://cdmediaworld.com/hardware/cdrom/cd_dye.shtml

And media:

http://www.american-digital.com/prodsite/default.asp (home page)

http://www.american-digital.com/prodsite/category.asp?c=150 (all DVD Media)

[JJkizak]

With all of this data I think Endover is rolling end over end. Just buy one that burns all the formats. Simple solution. And also a player. Query them as to what they want then burn that type of disc. Most everybody (not all) sends them out -R and if somebody complains they burn a +R for them. I send out all of mine -R (80 different people)and only one person said they didn't work. He notified me and he decided to buy a new player that played them both.

JJK

[dragonfyr]

You are right! (But if we offer less, the next person objects and brings up some off the wall obscure issue that effects but a small percentage! So you got it ALL!)

It need not be very difficult at all. There are MANY variations of 3 predominate formats. Most players and burners support the + and -R formats.

It is interesting that with regards to the longevity and integrity of the recordings that the dye is much more important, and unfortunately most are using the worst option for this.

[DrWho]

Just a small issue, but can be important at times...throughout the 3 machines I use for burning DVD's (2 pcs and 1 mac), I've found that DVD+R's take much much much longer to burn that DVD-R's...like on the order of 3x longer. I don't know if it's a software/hardware issue or just the nature of the different formats, but it was a hard lesson to learn when burning a very time sensitive movie (something went wrong for a "live show" and we had to reburn a dvd right before it was time to show it...thank goodness for performers with great stage presence).

[wheelman]

As long as your source player is compadable to whatever recordable dvd software your using you will be fine. I use -r, and and have a dual layer burner. But I find even if you burn em fast your gonna get a cd with artifacts in it or it just won't be stable as long. Maybe it's just me but I have a pretty good burner. I burn at 4x speed regardless even if I still am able to burn at 18x. A good disc for the price is avg dvd -r it will burn much faster than it's advertised speed. Like I said though if you want a quality recording your still going to have to settle for 4x in my opinion. By the way -r is way more compadable with older players and budget players.

[dragonfyr]

I will agree with -r being more compatible with the older players. Perhaps that is because -r was around before the newer players!

Generally speaking, -r is best for music CDs.

For data on computers, use +r, as it does not require "finishing" - the extra step at the end that will prevent some unattended backups (you need to check with your software on this one.) With +r, you will not have problems with data backups.

And check out the links earlier (or below) regarding media! By better media for less with BETTER dyes! The longevity and integrity of the data depend on it!

Go with the Taiyo Yuden or Mitsui Gold (PhthaloCyanine) or blue (AZO) dye disks. (This has NOTHING to do with the label color!!!!!!) Dramatically better record quality as well as longevity for archival purposes.

Dyes

http://cdmediaworld.com/hardware/cdrom/cd_dye.shtml

Media examples

http://www.american-digital.com/prodsite/category.asp?c=93

http://www.american-digital.com/prodsite/category.asp?c=1389

[j-malotky]

I have had much better luck with writing DVD-R than the +R. They seem to work on more of my DVD players, as the kids use the oldest ones, and it is there movies that I make copies of, leaving the originals on the shelf.

Also on the kid testing front. The +r seems to damage easier for some reason, where the -r IMO has been much more durable.

JM

[endover]

Lots of good info.....thanks.

It appears that I accidentally purhcased the -r's so I think I'm in good shape (for once) to try 'em out! I'm just waiting on my firewire cable to download from my camcorder and I'll let you know how things go. I should have it by this weekend. (mail order was less than 1/2 price than Best Buy).