firefighter Posted June 18, 2005 Share Posted June 18, 2005 I am looking at buying an entry level turntable and have read good thing about this turntable, so I'll ask here, a place I trust, what are your opinions on the Technics 1200mk2 or the 1200mk3? If I am patient enough I can probably get a well cared for used one on ebay with a cartridge and stylus for around $200. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iammikey Posted June 19, 2005 Share Posted June 19, 2005 I've had both models of 1200's as a DJ since 1987, and they are great direct drive industrial turntables. Technics 1200's set the expectation for TT's in the industrial arena long ago. If you are having a used one shipped, then make sure the seller will secure the platter so that it will not come off and break the tonearm. The dust covers do not always come with the TT. I use my 1200's every day and they have not failed me. I'm not sure if they are regarded as an audiophile TT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joessportster Posted June 19, 2005 Share Posted June 19, 2005 the technics are fine in there aera, one of the better tables for industrial use. that said it is a long way from audiophile, not sure it would even be considered entry level audiophile, i would suggest trying to find something like a dual cs 5000. this is a nice table that is dependable as it is servo controlled and belt driven puts out very nice sound, if you arelooking to stick with direct drive i would reccomend one of denon's better tables good luck in your search Joe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tuned4life Posted June 19, 2005 Share Posted June 19, 2005 hello, a friend of mine talked me into buying a technics sl 1600 mkII. i was lucky and got a low hour local one. i am most impressed with the how easy it is to use. i like how you can push the start button and stop button with the dust cover closed. i really the quartz locked speed control. a light comes on when it automatically locks the correct speed. i use a shure v15 III cartridge with original vn 35e stylus and i never have to touch the tonearm which eliminates risk of breaking my very hard to find stylus. i just love it. i have a marantz model 6300 table, a thorens 160, a dual 1229, dual 1229Q, and Dual cs 5000. the dual cs 5000 is definately nicer to look at but if it sounds any better i certainly cant hear it. the technics sl 1600 mk2 is the only table i use. i had also considered the sl 1200 mk2 but was advised that the sl 1600 mk2 is pretty much the new and improved version of the sl 1200. i like it so much i would like to find another one. im watching one thats currently listed but i have my doubts about the sellers willingness to pack it right. good luck in what ever you decide. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colterphoto1 Posted June 19, 2005 Share Posted June 19, 2005 I have two of the consumer level SL1700's that I have had since High School 30 years ago. They work like new. The 1200 has been the standard DJ turntable because of its stability and massive speed adustment slider. Good standard turntable, direct drive may not be as rumble resistent as a modern belt drive. But they are good bang for the buck. BUY A NEW CARTRIDGE though. Michael Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxg Posted June 19, 2005 Share Posted June 19, 2005 The technics table is one of those items that divides the audiophile community right down the middle. Currently the fashion is for belt drvie tables and as such the Technics direct drive approach is not popular. Whilst there is a lot of sense in isolating the motor from the table as much as possible I have never been convinced that this is the be all and end all of TT design. A well made direct drive - such as the Technics, can be made to sound very good indeed. I have seen this table with arms varying from Hadcock ultra-light arms to linear tracking air bearing arms to more standard items. Results have been varying but when it works - it works very well indeed - fashion notwithstanding! If you get hold of one in good condition (not hard to do - these things are built like tanks) then you should be able to get years of enjoyment out of it. Is it an audiophile table? Kinda depends on your definition of audiophile I guess. I would put it on a par with a Project RPM6 or a Rega P2/3. The issue with any direct drive table is with rumble from the motor affecting the playback. Frankly - get the setup right - and if all the bearings are functioning properly it should not be too much of an issue. Unless you put some serious work and money into it it will not match a VPI, Basis or higher end Rega/Project/MusicHall, but if you can find one for around $500 it will not be embarassed by any of the competition in that price range. Finally - with all those "ease of use" features I would regard it as an excellent entry into vinyl. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotbuck Posted June 19, 2005 Share Posted June 19, 2005 Greetings, Here are a couple of websites that may interest you: http://de.geocities.com/bc1a69/index_eng.html http://www.kabusa.com/frameset.htm?index.htm The first one explains about direct drive 'tables in general. (Using the info provided there I was able to score a great Kenwood KD-500 direct drive 'table.) The second link is for a fellow who does some interesting mods to the Technics 1200 'table, including some modded DJ cartridges for feather light tracking. I've found that I prefer the sound of direct drive (or rim drive) 'tables to belt drive. They just seem to be more solid and dynamic in their presentation. And my Kenwood, with a corian plinth, is easily as quiet as any belt drive I've owned. Hope this helps... Take care, Scott Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colterphoto1 Posted June 19, 2005 Share Posted June 19, 2005 One noteworthy benefit of a direct drive turntable is the ability to back cue. When recording vinyl to cassette, with a short stylus Stanton cartridge, I could back track the record to say 1/2 revolution of the start point, stop the motor, then get ready to cue the cassette, hit the PLAY button on turntable, watch LP spin round, then PUNCH IN REC the split second the music started. Made some really fine tapes on the fly with this technique. It's probably passe now that we're all trying to figure out how to transfer LP to CD with all the ancillary software for pop and tick reduction, mixing, etc. Just wanted to mention the solidity and quick start-up of direct drive motors. Plus if you're just begininning with nominal funds, they're inexpensive and as Max said 'TANKS'. good shopping, Michael Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garymd Posted June 19, 2005 Share Posted June 19, 2005 I owned the SL1800 since high school. I guess it was fine when I was a teenager but when I got back into vinyl a few years ago, I just couldn't get it to sound even close to adequate. I tried some pretty nice carts but ended up selling it in the end. Even the cheap Thorens TD165 I bought for next to nothing sounded MUCH better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEvan Posted June 19, 2005 Share Posted June 19, 2005 I know it's a lightly different category of 'table, but the Technics SP-10 series can be outstanding tables, depending on plinth, arm, etc. But they are heavy (40-50 lbs. without the base) and not too common. If you can find one that's clean, you have a turntable for life. They just don't have problems. New, they were 3-4x the cost of an SL1200, but used they're often near the same price as a used SL1200. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colterphoto1 Posted June 19, 2005 Share Posted June 19, 2005 So Gary, (Max, anyone) - are you gonna help me shop for a new turntable to protect all this vinyl you keep sending me? What's a good budget for a substantial upgrade for my mint Technics SL1700 Direct Drive Models? I have always used Stanton cartridges because I liked the short cantilever for back cueing ( a practice I wont do anymore), but I really liked the little weighted brush that damped warps and conducted static away. How much do I need to spend for a good solid belt drive and new cart? I'm thinking maybe $200-$250 for table and another $150 for cart maybe?? Help.. All my receivers have MM phono inputs. I bought those models on purpose. Michael Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clipped and Shorn Posted June 19, 2005 Share Posted June 19, 2005 ---------------- On 6/19/2005 10:42:58 AM maxg wrote: The technics table is one of those items that divides the audiophile community right down the middle. Currently the fashion is for belt drvie tables and as such the Technics direct drive approach is not popular. {Except with the Rockport drive system. This high end table uses the same drive concept as the Technics. http://stereophile.com/analogsourcereviews/258/} Whilst there is a lot of sense in isolating the motor from the table as much as possible I have never been convinced that this is the be all and end all of TT design. A well made direct drive - such as the Technics, can be made to sound very good indeed. {Kevin at KAB has some interesting upgrades. He likes the Technics technology.} http://www.kabusa.com/frameset.htm?/index.htm I have seen this table with arms varying from Hadcock ultra-light arms to linear tracking air bearing arms to more standard items. Results have been varying but when it works - it works very well indeed - fashion notwithstanding! If you get hold of one in good condition (not hard to do - these things are built like tanks) then you should be able to get years of enjoyment out of it. Is it an audiophile table? Kinda depends on your definition of audiophile I guess. I would put it on a par with a Project RPM6 or a Rega P2/3. I use one as well along with a good belt driven unit. Both get use. The issue with any direct drive table is with rumble from the motor affecting the playback. Frankly - get the setup right - and if all the bearings are functioning properly it should not be too much of an issue. {I think the Technics have addressed these issues pretty well.} Unless you put some serious work and money into it it will not match a VPI, Basis or higher end Rega/Project/MusicHall, but if you can find one for around $500 it will not be embarassed by any of the competition in that price range. Finally - with all those "ease of use" features I would regard it as an excellent entry into vinyl. ---------------- {I agree. Check out some of the upgrades ideas at KAB.} http://www.kabusa.com/frameset.htm?/index.htm C&S Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.4knee Posted June 19, 2005 Share Posted June 19, 2005 ---------------- On 6/19/2005 1:12:03 PM colterphoto1 wrote: So Gary, (Max, anyone) - are you gonna help me shop for a new turntable to protect all this vinyl you keep sending me? What's a good budget for a substantial upgrade for my mint Technics SL1700 Direct Drive Models? I have always used Stanton cartridges because I liked the short cantilever for back cueing ( a practice I wont do anymore), but I really liked the little weighted brush that damped warps and conducted static away. How much do I need to spend for a good solid belt drive and new cart? I'm thinking maybe $200-$250 for table and another $150 for cart maybe?? Help.. All my receivers have MM phono inputs. I bought those models on purpose. Michael ---------------- OT reply sort of Michael look at this one: http://www.needledoctor.com/s.nl/sc.2/category.349/it.A/id.2485/.f Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxg Posted June 19, 2005 Share Posted June 19, 2005 "What's a good budget for a substantial upgrade for my mint Technics SL1700 Direct Drive Models?" More than $250 for sure. In that price range a Project Debut - or whatever their entry level model is called these days might do some things slightly beter than your current rig - but I doubt it. The trade of from the reduced rumble will be in poorer timing in the system (it is not an expensive motor) and increased noise from the motor when in closer proximity to the needle (i.e. when the needle passes the half way mark on a 12 inch disk the noise starts to become intrusive on any decent cartridge unless you have the gain backed way off). Colter - if you like the sound of your table stay with it. I think you would have to spend $1500 to be sure of a real upgrade in the sound - well maybe not - but I would be really surprised to see anything less than $500 make you sit up and listen. C&S, I stand by my comments on direct drive not being popular. Rockports are not a very common table after all. You also stole a bit of my thunder - I was waiting for someone to pipe up with the standard "audiophile tables cannot be direct drive" In many ways vinyl is the story of how you can make almost any approach work if you put your mind to it: Suspended / High Mass. Direct Drive / Belt drive High mass arm / low mass arm high compliance cartridges / low compliance cartrdiges Moving coil / moving magnet 9 inch arm / 12 inch arm / linear tracking arm .... It is a long list and all comes down to the quality of the underlying engineering. Afterall Porsche managed to make a sports car out of a pendulum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clipped and Shorn Posted June 19, 2005 Share Posted June 19, 2005 ---------------- On 6/19/2005 2:19:24 PM maxg wrote: In many ways vinyl is the story of how you can make almost any approach work if you put your mind to it: ---------------- My system has been on for a couple of days (lots of hot tubes with the tri-amp --left is running all night with an FM classical station). Last night I was amazed at how I really do not notice surface noise when music is engaging. I was cleaning and listening to a new stash of rare Cuban LPs including some "danzon" which you might like Max, it being a semi-classical form. Between my Technics and an MM-7, I am fairly satisfied these days with my system, although I found Mark's comments about moving coil interesting. I just ordered this: http://www.renetouzet.com>www.renetouzet.com C&S Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firefighter Posted June 20, 2005 Author Share Posted June 20, 2005 Thanks for all your opinions, as for this noise that the direct drive motor produces, are we talking tolerable, highly noticable, only noticable when no music is playing and the table is spinning, or can you hear it from 10 feet away, 2 feet away? Does the noise come through the needle when no music is playing? The reason I was considering this table was the preference for it in the dj business, I figured if it was good enough to play in front of crowds then it should be good enough for me. I want to get my expectations right. all this audio stuff can get really expensive, all I can spend is $250. Jack. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iammikey Posted June 20, 2005 Share Posted June 20, 2005 Jack, I don't think I have heard any noise in my TT's. Then again, I don't listen for it. I'll have to compare it some time this week to one of my belt driven TT's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clipped and Shorn Posted June 20, 2005 Share Posted June 20, 2005 Older direct drive tt had the problems. When Technics revolutionized the technology they fixed this. Email Kevin at KABusa.com for more information about this. He is an engineer with ears. C&S Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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