Moderators Amy Posted June 20, 2005 Moderators Share Posted June 20, 2005 Why watch the F1 races anyway? After lap 3, Michael Schumacher takes the lead then the race is all but over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndyKlipschFan Posted June 20, 2005 Share Posted June 20, 2005 Has been true the last several years, Amy! This was his FIRST win this season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smokem Posted June 20, 2005 Share Posted June 20, 2005 This will put a hurt on F1's chances here in the USA! NASCAR and NHRA!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petrol Posted June 20, 2005 Share Posted June 20, 2005 "...the Michelin teams pulled off the track and parked in a unified protest..."I feel terrible. I have a sick feeling in my stomach," David Coulthard said after pulling out of the race. "I am embarrassed to be a part of this."..." ^^^ He and all the other drivers & teams that wimped out Should feel at sick at the least. As I previously posted, I blame only those who parked and walk. Major Kudos to Ferrari for having what it takes to race AND WIN on race day with their michelins, regardless of the other michelin shod teams acting like cry babies & 'boycotting' the race due to Bridgestone being the "best" tire Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indyjeep Posted June 20, 2005 Share Posted June 20, 2005 My buddy and I went to the race expecting an amazing spectacle, from what my friends were saying and just being race fans in general, and left on lap 20 in major disappointment. I thought, this isn't a race its just 6 cars going around a track for show. One gentleman threw his cup over the fence right in front of us. Other people were leaving with lewd gestures pointed in the air. I say they replace the F1 with LeMans, I always preferred Corvettes and Vipers. I really do think next year will be the last year. After changing it from September to June and than this. I can't see them hear in the future. Sad, Sad Day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colterphoto1 Posted June 20, 2005 Share Posted June 20, 2005 There WAS an alternative. The teams could have used a provided, on site, alternate Michelin tire, but they would have had a penalty, perhaps starting at the back of the 'grid' or a one lap penalty. This was spelled out by Bernie E in a letter response to Michelin's 'safety' warning. This was apparently not acceptable to the teams. The teams are primarily at fault, I blame FIA for not making sure the teams make accomodation and provided entertainment for the fans. Tony George, the IMS organization and the fans and city of Indianapolis were all innocent victims in this case. Michael Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colterphoto1 Posted June 20, 2005 Share Posted June 20, 2005 Here is a link to PDF file of last correspondence between Michelin and FIA prior to the race. http://www.fia.com/resources/documents/1948071003__19_06_2005_Michelin_indy_letter_2.pdf The teams are clearly at fault here. FIA could not change the race course without all teams approval, per their rules. Michelin had alternate tires on hand that would have been safe. The teams knew of the sliding difficulty at Friday's practice and Saturday qualification sessions. There was time to make the tire change. They would not make the needed change in tires and suffer the penalty. Outcome- racing suffers. Michael Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colterphoto1 Posted June 20, 2005 Share Posted June 20, 2005 From the Indianapolis Star Monday edition Disgusted F-1 fans clamor for refunds Fan reaction "It looks bad for Indianapolis. Im done with it. Im done with CART, done with IRL, done with F-1 and I dont like NASCAR. So, Im thinking maybe curling would be a good sport to follow." Steve Yaney, Fort Smith, Ark., who attended the race with his daughter, Kristen "Its horrible. This is an abomination of the sport. I cant believe they allowed it to occur." Tom Heitzenrater, Detroit "This is my first F-1 race and probably my last." Emerson Petty, Indianapolis "So many people came from all over the world to be here and spent so much money to get disappointed like this. Its too bad." Kathy Strope, Portland, Ore. "When we saw the race at the start, we thought that everything was going to be OK. But then everyone disappeared." Jose Reina, Colombia "What would they do if someone died on these bad tires?" Steve Beverly, 44, Spotsylvania, Va., who said the drivers did the right thing by sticking together on this issue "We drove 16 hours, and we dont even get to watch half the teams race." Adrian Jackson, Florida "Im not going to come back. I cant imagine (drivers) just quitting. For all of them to pull off and run just three teams, thats crazy. Ill just be an IRL and NASCAR fan from now on." Brian Whittle, Carmel, Ind. "I was hoping somebody besides Michael Schumacher would win." Darrell Harris, Northville, Mich. "A lot of people were irritated, frustrated, upset (and) disgruntled. So, its like, Do I want to buy a souvenir from a race that I really didnt even see?." Annette Raisor, 47, Mount Washington, Ky., who was standing at a booth on Georgetown Road, selling souvenirs with the Ferrari emblem on them "I just feel bad for the race track. They put so much effort into it. Its really not their fault, even though people were blaming Indianapolis." Pat Beyland, 59, Carmel, Ind. Star report They cursed. They made obscene gestures. They demanded refunds. And a lot of them left early, vowing never to return. The fans who had paid hundreds, in some cases thousands, of dollars to travel to Indianapolis for Sunday's U.S. Grand Prix quickly voiced their disgust when a dispute over the safety of the Michelin tires used by seven of the 10 teams kept 14 cars out of the race. That left six cars from three teams, and to some fans, that was no race at all. Many walked out by the second lap. Others threw beer cans on the track. Hundreds gathered on the plaza behind the pagoda, many screaming -- and pointing their middle fingers -- at the tower's glass windows and the race officials inside. At one point, a few surged toward the gate of a restricted area at the base of the pagoda. They were shoved back by Marion County sheriff's deputies who had warned them repeatedly to keep their distance. Adolf Rose nearly got into a confrontation with one deputy. "This is crazy," he said a few minutes later. "I brought my kids. We traveled nine and a half hours from Maryland, and we get this? "This is a bunch of crap. They should give every one of us our money back." About 50 fans gathered behind the Indianapolis Motor Speedway's administration building, near 16th Street and Georgetown Road, also hoping to speak to somebody about getting their money back. They were kept at bay by about 20 State Police troopers. "A couple of these people could have made problems for us, so we let them vent and speak their piece and that usually takes care of it," said State Police Sgt. Dan Jones. A sign on the building's front door indicated more information about refunds would be available today. The demand for money was repeated among many as they left early -- and by some who stayed. "I want a refund. I wouldn't dare come back here to see another race, that's for sure," said Ian Martin, Houston, who traveled here with Maria Bacaling for their first Formula One race. And, probably, their last. A fan for about four years, Martin and Bacaling paid $105 each for their tickets and made a weekend out of it, arriving Thursday in Indianapolis. "It's a great city. I love the town. I had a great time up until 1 o'clock today," Martin said, referring to the race's start. Standing behind the pagoda after the race, the dejected couple said they were unlikely to spend any more money on the series. Local officials were hoping Sunday that the images of the Speedway and the city would escape fans' wrath. "The Speedway brings in three of the largest events in town, and they deal with this better than anybody. We have the utmost confidence in their ability to move beyond that," said Deputy Mayor Steve Campbell. "We're still the racing capital. Always will be." Steve Talley, president of the Indianapolis City-County Council, echoed that view. "I don't think it will have a major impact on the city or the race itself," he said. Nonetheless, it did have an impact Sunday. Vendors expecting to sell to happy fans after the race watched disgruntled fans walk out early, wallets closed. Vallis Kays, 55, Crawfordsville, hit the road after the first few cans and bottles were tossed on the track. "We're leaving before it gets ugly," he said. Police prepared for that possibility. The Indianapolis Police Department sent 24 extra officers to the Speedway once the controversy began. Dressed in riot gear, those officers took positions in the infield. After the race, Marion County sheriff's deputies stood around the podium during the ceremony honoring the top three finishers. IPD had a total of 224 officers at the track, most for traffic control, and they made no arrests, Lt. Brian Clouse said. "The fans showed their displeasure by throwing trash on the track, and then they left," he said. But some of them had a longer trip home than others. Camilo Arbelaze came to Indianapolis from Colombia with more than 20 family members for what was supposed to be a Father's Day present. "A lot of people had this as a family event," Arbelaze said. "A lot of people invested money to come in for a good time, and we feel betrayed." Some of the vendors at the Speedway said the controversy had no effect on their business. But souvenir seller Annette Matusky said sales were much less than in the other five years she's come to the Grand Prix -- even after she cut prices. Those vendors depend in part on the fervor of Formula One's European fans, thousands of whom travel all over the world for races. Sunday, that devotion turned into an expensive lesson. Juan Garcia, who traveled from Europe, was skeptical of the teams that pulled out -- and dismissive of those who stayed in. "This is not at all fair," he said. "I wouldn't be proud to win a race like this." The controversy isn't likely to help Formula One's image in the United States, where it has struggled to create a fan base. Carol Wood and her husband, Al, traveled to Indianapolis from Fort Lauderdale, Fla., spending about $2,000 on the trip. "I don't want for anyone to get hurt or anyone to get killed, but there should have been a postponement or something," she said. "Next year, we'll go to Montreal," site of the Canadian Grand Prix. "This is not a race, it's a little exhibition." Whatever it was, it was dominated by the Ferrari team, which was OK by some fans of Brazilian driver Rubens Barrichello, the Ferrari driver who finished second. As usual, the Brazilian fans were visible and vocal, decked out in their country's green and yellow. One group stood in the stands along the main straightaway, as Kesley Fabio waved a flag at least a dozen feet high. "We feel so sorry. We think this is politics," said Helio Silva, of Brazil, part of a group of 12 people who were meeting at their third U.S. Grand Prix. "Everyone comes from all over the world to see F-1, and they're disappointed. This could really change F-1 in the United States," he added. "But we'll be here next year. With our flag." Star reporters Jeff Rabjohns, Rebecca Neal, Cathy Kightlinger, Jordan Schrader, Matthew Glenesk, Jane Huh, Kevin O'Neal and John O'Neill contributed to this story. Email this Print this Post message Letter to editor Reprint info Today's top stories Grand slammed: Race flops Disgusted F-1 fans clamor for refunds Safe Havens welcome babies when moms don't FIA summons teams to hearing Agassi accepts RCA invitation Groups decry rise in violence Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colterphoto1 Posted June 20, 2005 Share Posted June 20, 2005 I spoke with a friend who was in the first turn for the F1 fiasco. He said it really looked like near riot proportions in the stands Sunday as the 14 Michelin drivers headed into to the pits. Upon seeing close up footage on the Jumbotrons of drivers exiting the cars, and cars being towed into waiting garages, doors lowered and 'sorry fans' signs hung, about 25% of the crowd immediately left the stands, presumably to demand refunds from whoever would listen to their plight. There was no mention of the action over the track's pa system and the race was never halted for this action. Fans tried to shower the track with litter and beer cans. Thumbs down and 'the universal salute' gesture were waved for the next hour as the 6 remaining cars continued on their course. IMS president Tony George refused to wave the checkered flag at the conclusion of the race and winner Schumacher did not shower the crowd with the magnum of champagne, carrying it with his head hung low back to the garage area after the 'victory celebration'. Sad day indeed. Almost as horrific as the Pacers at Detroit fan incident. This city is getting a bad name in sports and it's not our fault. Michael Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petrol Posted June 20, 2005 Share Posted June 20, 2005 "...teams could have used a provided, on site, alternate Michelin tire, but they would have had a penalty, perhaps starting at the back of the 'grid' or a one lap penalty..." ^^^ it is indeed a shame that the teams chose to leave compition rather then to run what they brung. Do I believe that bernie could have played it a bit better, sure I would add that besides Tony George, the city of Indianapolis and race fans in general being innocent victims, the six drivers that DID have the courage to participate in the race were all victims as well...especially considering the jestures AND crap that the fans threw at them . . . pretty ironic since those six were the only real heros of the day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Royster Posted June 20, 2005 Share Posted June 20, 2005 ---------------- On 6/20/2005 2:39:43 PM Petrol wrote: "...teams could have used a provided, on site, alternate Michelin tire, but they would have had a penalty, perhaps starting at the back of the 'grid' or a one lap penalty..." ^^^ it is indeed a shame that the teams chose to leave compition rather then to run what they brung. Do I believe that bernie could have played it a bit better, sure I would add that besides Tony George, the city of Indianapolis and race fans in general being innocent victims, the six drivers that DID have the courage to participate in the race were all victims as well...especially considering the jestures AND crap that the fans threw at them . . . pretty ironic since those six were the only real heros of the day. ---------------- Petrol, I was not there. But I would think that the fans were throwing junk onto the track, to show disapointment with the event. Not displeasure with those that decided to do there job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteelerFan Posted June 20, 2005 Share Posted June 20, 2005 I remember living for F1 back when I was a kid and Mario Andretti was racing in that series. I couldn't wait to receive the latest edition of Road & Track to read all about his exploits. I had things to do yesterday but turned the race on as soon as I finished. I can't put into words how disappointed I was to see just 6 cars competing. Glad I didn't shirk my responsibilities to watch the whole thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragonfyr Posted June 20, 2005 Share Posted June 20, 2005 On 6/20/2005 2:39:43 PM Petrol wrote: I would add that besides Tony George, the city of Indianapolis and race fans in general being innocent victims, the six drivers that DID have the courage to participate in the race were all victims as well...especially considering the jestures AND crap that the fans threw at them . . . pretty ironic since those six were the only real heros of the day. I agree. Especially as that crap being thrown had the distinct possibility of endangering their and other's lives . That behavior only compounds the stupidity of the driver's walking out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Amy Posted June 29, 2005 Moderators Share Posted June 29, 2005 For those of you who had an interest in this: http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050629/NLETTER05/50629004 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colterphoto1 Posted June 29, 2005 Share Posted June 29, 2005 Thanks for the update Amy, I did hear on sports locker last night that Michelin would be paying the nearly $13 million to refund to ticket holders of this years race and would also be purchasing 20,000 of the tickets for the 2006 race. Interesting to note that this latest debacle might destroy the entire F1 racing league. I suppose that's there comeuppance for being so snooty. Michael Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndyKlipschFan Posted June 29, 2005 Share Posted June 29, 2005 Michael.. but how can you even tell if your Michelin to pay whom?? A torn ticket... Just sad..all of it sad... And I say it again ... 140k people at Indy saw this race even if they walked later. No where on the F1 circuit does 140k people come to see Formula one in person. It is my understanding Indy is the largest F1 crowd. Why punish us here?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petrol Posted June 29, 2005 Share Posted June 29, 2005 not that it is exactly on topic but I took my daughter, one of her friends, a friend of mine and his child to the IRL race this past saturday night here in Richmond, VA . . . One heck of a show!!! probably the best part is the sheer value . . . The IRL knows who butters their bread and treat their fans accordingly. It only cost us $60 for ALL of us at the gate yet the show was great! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ARPRINCE Posted June 29, 2005 Share Posted June 29, 2005 ---------------- On 6/20/2005 12:12:56 PM Petrol wrote: Major Kudos to Ferrari for having what it takes to race AND WIN on race day with their michelins, regardless of the other michelin shod teams acting like cry babies & 'boycotting' the race due to Bridgestone being the "best" tire ---------------- I think Ferrari was using Bridgestone tires and that's why they didn't join the boycott. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indyjeep Posted June 29, 2005 Share Posted June 29, 2005 Correct Ferrari and a few other teams were all using Bridgestone tires. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill H. Posted June 29, 2005 Share Posted June 29, 2005 I too was saddened by the events. On the news tonight the F1 league is going to fine the Drivers/owners who pulled out of the race........ It bothers me that F1 is going to fine these people who were Told by Michlein to pull out-because there tires would be unsafe......... (If they told you to Not use their product because it was unsafe would you then drive?) Duh....... F1 leadership needs to relax their rules on allowing tire changes (product change)... Overall a very sad /sick turn of events for Indy/and the worlds F1 Fans who came to Indianapolis............. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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