jlukins Posted June 21, 2005 Share Posted June 21, 2005 I am looking at buying a new receiver (right now I'm looking at a used Harman Kardon AVR630 or Denon 3803) and I think I am noticing a disturbing new trend. Instead of having the option of hooking up an extra pair of speakers in the speaker 'B' slot, you now have to either choose to have rear surrounds OR a 'zone 2' set of speakers. I realize that you can add another amp and have another set but all I want to do is power some small outdoor speakers on the porch but I also want to utilize 7.1 surround. Am I missing something or is this impossible with these receivers. You would think that for $600 they could anything my old $250 Onkyo could do but maybe not. What about the A-bus feature on the HK models. Does this allow you to hook up an extra set of speakers via a Cat-5 cable AND allow you to run 7.1? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colterphoto1 Posted June 21, 2005 Share Posted June 21, 2005 I'm just guessing but the problem might be that these receivers are completely taxed out for resistance and power. With 6 channels of amplifier pumping out nearly clipping levels for HT useage, adding another 2 speakers lowering the resisitance to the two main LR amps to 4 ohms or lower is just possible and still maintain the integrity of the amp section (ie, NOT blow up). Many of the HT receivers get extrememly hot, have inboard or need outboard fans already. The B circuit is a nice feature if you use either/or, but I think the manufacturers are guarding against users who want to run BOTH simultaneously. My Yamaha RSV2400 has 'B', and Zone 2,3 and you can assign channels 5 and 6 to run speakers for the Zone 2 selection. Pretty flexible if you ask me. Michael Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fish Posted June 21, 2005 Share Posted June 21, 2005 I hope you're kiddin'...An avr that you can have 7.1 going inside and have 2ch goin' outside for $600 is askin' a "little" much,don't ya think? You can switch the zone 2 for outside or 7.1 inside with the push of a few buttons,thats pretty flexable to me.If anyone knows of an avr that runs 7.1 and 2ch zone 2 at the same time for 600 bucks just tell me where to sign up,I'll take a few. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenratboy Posted June 21, 2005 Share Posted June 21, 2005 Something like this might work: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B00026BQJ6/qid=1119406688/sr=8-7/ref=sr_8__i3_xgl23/104-9420838-5178357?v=glance&s=electronics&n=1065836 Cheap, good 2-channel amp. Trust me, I already put a 120mm case fan on my Harman Kardon 635 because it runs VERY hot (they do), and anything else in there is scary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sivadselim Posted June 21, 2005 Share Posted June 21, 2005 that speaker "B" slot usually was not powered by separate amps, so it was not really a desirable feature anyway Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toddvj Posted June 21, 2005 Share Posted June 21, 2005 You could always hook up a speaker selector to act as an "A/B switch." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlukins Posted June 22, 2005 Author Share Posted June 22, 2005 Thanks for the responses. Fish, I don't need to run the 7.1 and the outside speakers at the same time. When I'm running the outside speakers I would run 2-channel stereo inside as well. (I have done this for the last 5 years with my ONKYO, when I would have people over so I had music on inside and out). You say this could be done with the push of a few buttons which would be fine but I don't see how. You can only hook up zone 2 speakers or 'b' speakers, you cannot hook up both and switch between the two as far as I can tell. That would be the best solution and that's my question. Why not have that. Have 'b' speaker inputs and a 'b' speaker button that just disabled the 7.1 when the 'b' speakers are in use. Also, those units actually cost over $1000 when new. Kenratboy, thanks, that is a good option but it seems silly to have to do that for some cheapo outdoor bose speakers. toddvj, that might be a good idea but I need to run both a and b at the same time so my selector switch would have to switch between zone 2 and 7.1 on the rear channel, because I don't need 7.1 AND 'b' but I do need 'a' AND 'b'. But then I would have to change that setting from zone 2 to rear surround in the setup menu everytime. Seems like a pain in the butt, but maybe a will have to live with it. And maybe its a simple thing to do, I just don't know since I don't have the receiver yet. But again, why make us add our own selector switch, why not just put another pair of inputs on the back with a button on the front like they've done for years (and like ONKYO still does) and call it a day. Again, thanks for the responses Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fish Posted June 22, 2005 Share Posted June 22, 2005 You can run 5.1 inside and 2ch outside at the same time,even different sources,on the 3803 and the 630.On the 3803 you can run 7.1 inside then switch rear speakers to zone 2 and send the that power to outdoor speakers,(while still running 5.1 inside)the 3803 has 9 pairs of speaker binding post,hope that helps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlukins Posted June 22, 2005 Author Share Posted June 22, 2005 Fish, I appreciate the input, but I'm looking at a diagram of the 3803 and it looks like the extra 2 pairs of binding posts are for an extra set of side surround speakers which would not help my situation. I don't want the side surround channel playing in my rear surrounds or my outdoor speakers. So I still don't see how I could switch from having 5.1 and outdoor speakers to 7.1 without having to actually switch speaker wires in the back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fish Posted June 22, 2005 Share Posted June 22, 2005 All I can tell you is I had a 3802/03/05 and listened to 5.1 concerts inside while playing the radio outside in stereo 2ch.I also watch movies in 5.1 inside on my 630 while listening to the radio outside,right now.Sorry if I'm making it sound difficult,its really simple. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlukins Posted June 22, 2005 Author Share Posted June 22, 2005 Yeah, I know you can run 5.1 inside and power outside speakers at the same time, by choosing zone 2 instead of rear surrounds. But when the outside speakers are off I want to be able to listen to 7.1 like I can with my old ONKYO. Not possible with the HK or Denon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunt Posted June 22, 2005 Share Posted June 22, 2005 How about the Denon 2805. It has A and B, as well as the 7.1. My Klipsch outdoor speakers never sounded better! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlukins Posted June 22, 2005 Author Share Posted June 22, 2005 Hunt, I like the way you're thinkin'. I didn't realize the 2805 had the A/B option. I just bought an ONKYO tx-sr602 for $350 brand new (couldn't pass up such a good deal) so I will try it tonight and see what I think. If I have any doubts I might return the 602 and take your advice on the 2805, but considering it would be about twice as much as what I just paid, I'm hoping the new ONKYO does it for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soundthought Posted June 22, 2005 Share Posted June 22, 2005 Hi. Just a thought. Maybe you could get a multi-speaker selector and run it off the zone outputs. (From the receiver) Simply select the output desired from the "on screen" display options menu, then switch the selector to the desired set of speakers. Heck... You could even run a few different sets if you wanted to. Regards, John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlukins Posted June 22, 2005 Author Share Posted June 22, 2005 For that matter, I could run a selector off the main inputs. I guess that's what I might do since I just got done testing the onkyo 602 that I spoke of earlier and I'm now headed out to return it. My old Onkyo 501 that I'm replacing sounded better than the new 602 in a side by side. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zen Traveler Posted June 22, 2005 Share Posted June 22, 2005 Denon 4802-R. I use both A & B surround during movies and it sounds excellent! I know slightly off topic... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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